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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    FFS Boo, you're a one trick pony.... Everything is Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush
    Bush, Bush Bush



    NEWSFLASH:


    The topic is the emails from the White House on Benghazi... NOT BUSH
    I'm sorry, but he is valid for comparison, just as Clinton was with Bush.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I know Bush acted on faulty information, and he's guilty of that. What I disagree with is that he lied about it or covered it up, like Obama has absolutely done.
    I know. Because you can't connect those obvious dots. You can here, without half the evidence. And that is my point. With Bush, there was nothing new from the Clinton years. They had to go with false testimony from a tortured man that the CIA said likely couldn't know what he claimed. From Chalibi who betrayed us during the first gulf war, to iran (who helped us invade). From his heroes in error (that he put together for us. All doubted by the CIA. And let's not even talk Curveball, who even the New Yorker knew not to trust. Yes, make excuses, but absent the Cheney push and the inappropriate use of intel by Fieth, all working under Bush, this stuff doesn't make it in the intel.

    But ignore the evidence. Bush was just too stupid to know what the New Yorker knew. What PBS knew. What many other voices trying to stop him knew. Presidents can't be expected to read or watch shows explaining it.

    So yes, I know. You believe Bush was just fooled.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know. Because you can't connect those obvious dots. You can here, without half the evidence. And that is my point. With Bush, there was nothing new from the Clinton years. They had to go with false testimony from a tortured man that the CIA said likely couldn't know what he claimed. From Chalibi who betrayed us during the first gulf war, to iran (who helped us invade). From his heroes in error (that he put together for us. All doubted by the CIA. And let's not even talk Curveball, who even the New Yorker knew not to trust. Yes, make excuses, but absent the Cheney push and the inappropriate use of intel by Fieth, all working under Bush, this stuff doesn't make it in the intel.

    But ignore the evidence. Bush was just too stupid to know what the New Yorker knew. What PBS knew. What many other voices trying to stop him knew. Presidents can't be expected to read or watch shows explaining it.

    So yes, I know. You believe Bush was just fooled.
    The error was mirror-imaging. We made the mistake of believing that since proving there were no WMD was most important to us it was therefore most important to the Iraqis. It was not. What was most important to the Iraqis was leading the Iranians to believe Iraq did have WMD. The Iranians were fooled, and so was the US. It does not, however, matter that much because the GWB group decided on war in advance of the intel, not because of it. They believed the intel was true, but they also very much wanted it to be true.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #274
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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Dude... Where is my embassy? Where is your embassy... dude?

    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  5. #275
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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know. Because you can't connect those obvious dots. You can here, without half the evidence. And that is my point. With Bush, there was nothing new from the Clinton years. They had to go with false testimony from a tortured man that the CIA said likely couldn't know what he claimed. From Chalibi who betrayed us during the first gulf war, to iran (who helped us invade). From his heroes in error (that he put together for us. All doubted by the CIA. And let's not even talk Curveball, who even the New Yorker knew not to trust. Yes, make excuses, but absent the Cheney push and the inappropriate use of intel by Fieth, all working under Bush, this stuff doesn't make it in the intel.

    But ignore the evidence. Bush was just too stupid to know what the New Yorker knew. What PBS knew. What many other voices trying to stop him knew. Presidents can't be expected to read or watch shows explaining it.

    So yes, I know. You believe Bush was just fooled.
    I don't believe he was just fooled, I believe he jumped on that which supported his confirmation bias. He reported the information he had, though, and there is no evidence that he fabricated any information sent to the UN (and the US Congress), and the majority of the UN agreed with him (as did the majority of Congress). You and these credible analysts in the New York times are ignoring quite a bit that supported Bush's view. Regardless, Saddam was very invadable for all the other reasons the invasion occurred.

    Now, there is no denying that Obama's administration covered up real information and outright lied about what they knew.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The error was mirror-imaging. We made the mistake of believing that since proving there were no WMD was most important to us it was therefore most important to the Iraqis. It was not. What was most important to the Iraqis was leading the Iranians to believe Iraq did have WMD. The Iranians were fooled, and so was the US. It does not, however, matter that much because the GWB group decided on war in advance of the intel, not because of it. They believed the intel was true, but they also very much wanted it to be true.
    NO, they did not believe the intel. The key there was the slam dunk comment. Put yourself in his shoes, honestly, and you look at the intel and it doesn't measure, so you say is this all there is? This is recognition that the case isn't adding up. Would slam dunk really make you go OK, with no change in the weak evidence? The reading of that which makes any sense is the one given by Tenet: "The slam dunk mean it was a rationale the people would buy." I'm sorry, but the evidence is far too great that they didn't believe it, nor even really cared about it.

    But you are right that they started with the answer first. On that we agree.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I don't believe he was just fooled, I believe he jumped on that which supported his confirmation bias. He reported the information he had, though, and there is no evidence that he fabricated any information sent to the UN (and the US Congress), and the majority of the UN agreed with him (as did the majority of Congress). You and these credible analysts in the New York times are ignoring quite a bit that supported Bush's view. Regardless, Saddam was very invadable for all the other reasons the invasion occurred.

    Now, there is no denying that Obama's administration covered up real information and outright lied about what they knew.
    Confirmation bias? A very forgiving phrase. But the truth is the majority of the UN did not agree with him. We had to buy people into the coalition of the willing. The only belief held by a majority was that he had some left over, likely degrading wmds. Before all of this, there was talk of relaxing sanctions, and not fear of this crippled leader. The US itself was allowing him to smuggle oil, not at all afraid of what he might do. Nothing changed in the intel, but in the desire to go to war.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    One problem with the comparison. Whether or not (and I think he was) Bush was engaging in confirmation bias, he pretty clearly thought there were active WMD production programs ongoing in Iraq. So did our allies. So (even) did some of our non-so-allies, like Russia (they just didn't think it justified an invasion).

    There is no one in the, diplomatic, intelligence or defense communities who thought it was a Youtube video. It was a terrorist attack from the beginning.

    The Bush Administration had a screwed up decision process that poorly weighed the evidence, and they were wrong. The Obama Administration lied.


    Remember Sarcogito? Used to post here - great dude. A fairly left-wing dude, single-payer, two time obama supporter, all that. Except he was also a member of the diplomatic community, and left the Benghazi outpost about 2-3 weeks before all this went down. The man was torn up when he saw the administration he supported lie, repeatedly, about how his friends were killed and then about a man he respected, whom they tried to smear. I think he eventually basically quit here because he just became completely disgusted with politics from the situation.
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-02-14 at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The documents in question say otherwise.
    In the email, which went to Press Secretary Jay Carney, Communications Director Jen Palmieri, and other communications officials in the administration, Rhodes laid out the goals of the administration in preparing then-U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice to appear on the Sunday morning talk shows just days after the attack. Conservatives have taken the bullet point stating that one of the goals of Rice’s appearance is to “underscore that these protests are rooted in an Internet video, and not a broader failure of policy” as the smoking gun they needed to finally prove that the administration has been politically manipulating the response from the very beginning.

    As everyone knows, Rice went on to do all five Sunday shows and was subsequently pilloried by Republicans and members of the right-wing media for placing such a strong emphasis on the role of the anti-Islamic video in prompting the attack. Such an interpretation of both Rice’s comments and Rhodes’ email, however, ignores the fact that when Rhodes’ email was sent, the Central Intelligence Agency had hours beforehand already drafted a set of talking points that placed the blame on the video. We learned that fact from the emails the White House released over a year ago. And it wasn’t until just prior to Rice’s appearance that intelligence agencies began to come to a consensus that the attack was less spontaneous and more planned that previously determined. That bit of information we learned all the way back in Nov. 2012.

    Source: Please Don't Read This Benghazi Article | ThinkProgress

    Again, nothing new here.

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    Re: Newly released Benghazi documents reinforce that White House was pushing that vid

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    NO, they did not believe the intel. The key there was the slam dunk comment. Put yourself in his shoes, honestly, and you look at the intel and it doesn't measure, so you say is this all there is? This is recognition that the case isn't adding up. Would slam dunk really make you go OK, with no change in the weak evidence? The reading of that which makes any sense is the one given by Tenet: "The slam dunk mean it was a rationale the people would buy." I'm sorry, but the evidence is far too great that they didn't believe it, nor even really cared about it.

    But you are right that they started with the answer first. On that we agree.
    I was in that business for over three decades. The capacity to believe what is congenial from a policy perspective is without limit.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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