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Report shows violence against rangers rising, sequestration likely to worsen

They tried the due process, court of law thing for twenty years. Why don't you tell us how much more leeway a man gets before his door gets kicked in?



The thing some people don't seem to be getting is that this isn't even mainly about Bundy. It is a reaction to decades of Federal land-grabs and abuse of ranchers.
 
The thing some people don't seem to be getting is that this isn't even mainly about Bundy. It is a reaction to decades of Federal land-grabs and abuse of ranchers.

Are you a rancher that has been abused?
 
US Federal Agents =/= KGB.



Ah, that is an interesting point. I submit that your viewpoint on that might change if it was your ox getting gored. :mrgreen:
 
So those bombings by militias in '95 is some how linked to an increase in in violence in 2013?

Just out of curiosity...how exactly can you link what some militia did in '95 to the increased violence against park rangers since the blog you sourced doesn't even have the word "militia" in it but instead refers to the sequestrian in '13?

Why do I have a feeling that this thread is because of whats going on with Cliven Bundy and the OP just wants to make all militias look like terrorists so that they can be punished while not caring about actual evidence......?

As you know, terrorists, domestic and international just do not die off or fade into obscurity, they come back at later dates to taunt and plan attacks on innocent people. But, you already knew that, yes?
 
Are you a rancher that has been abused?


I am a citizen. The mistreatment of any citizen by government is of concern to me.



Well, except hippies of course. :lamo



(that was a joke... some of my favorite people are hippies, lol)
 
But as I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) there are REASONS why there is a push-back going on, and it involved Federal land grabs and numerous offenses against property owners in certain states, and heavy-handed Fed actions.

Were these land grabs compensated somehow?
 
Report shows violence against rangers rising, sequestration likely to worsen | Wilderness.org


Read more...
Militia Link Suspected In Acts Against Federal Land Workers The Fbi Is Examining March Bombings Of Forest Service In Nevada. - Philly.com



And so, now it's come to being violent towards people working in the field who are employed by the US Government as Forest Service and BLM people.

This won't come to an end until more government employees are injured or killed by just performing their jobs. Then the government might do something about finding these nut jobs, arresting them and getting them into courts.

It must be pretty bad for people just doing their jobs having to look over their shoulders all the time, wondering if someone is going to attack them.

Indeed it is. Welcome to the USA but beware that their are criminals among the population and some are quite violent. Let me guess that since it is gov't workers then the answer is to arm them or to provide them armed protection at the expense of the general public. ;)

Perhaps you can show us some evidence that it is more dangerous to be a federal civilian worker than say a logger, hunter or trapper on those same lands.
 
That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the point is that someone can be "just doing their job" and still be oppressing people.


Do I think that, by and large, the average Ranger or BLM employee is equivalent to the KGB or engaged in oppression? No. Do I support indiscriminate violence against same? No.

But as I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) there are REASONS why there is a push-back going on, and it involved Federal land grabs and numerous offenses against property owners in certain states, and heavy-handed Fed actions.


The thing that ought to concern everyone is that we've reached a point where grievances against the People have caused some to start viewing any Fedgov agent as an enemy... and to recognize that the reasons why are NOT simply "militia are violent for no reason".

So, people working in field offices, scrubbing toilets, clearing trails, cleaning campsites, collecting fees,and doing other arduous tasks of manual labor are oppressing? OMG, I can believe now how you equate those workers to the KGB. Wow, just wow.

Grievances people have about their dislikes with our government should be litigated in a court system, not at gunpoint, and not with instilling fear into a person's workplace by planting bombs.
 
I thought it was going to be a link to the text of the patriot act or something.

I believe in protecting whatever we have left too, but, why are militia groups targeting people who work in the field? Aren't they spinning their wheels? Shouldn't they be getting their heads together and filing lawsuits or briefs in the courts? That's why there are courts, for people to file their grievances they have with the government. Not sneaking around in the shadows hoping to ambush innocent people just trying to do their jobs.

Nothing has happened recently to warrant worry but, I'm sure fear and anger are fuming.


Both of the recent cases against the BLM have for decades. "You can't fight city hall" as the saying goes.

Putting plants and animals above humans will not make you any friends.
 
Were these land grabs compensated somehow?



I don't really care. Eminent domain should never be used except for truly necessary purposes that benefit the public as a whole, and even then only sparingly.
 
So, people working in field offices, scrubbing toilets, clearing trails, cleaning campsites, collecting fees,and doing other arduous tasks of manual labor are oppressing? OMG, I can believe now how you equate those workers to the KGB. Wow, just wow.

Grievances people have about their dislikes with our government should be litigated in a court system, not at gunpoint, and not with instilling fear into a person's workplace by planting bombs.



Strawman arguments. You're either deliberately misrepresenting me or else you didn't even read the post. :mrgreen:



That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the point is that someone can be "just doing their job" and still be oppressing people.


Do I think that, by and large, the average Ranger or BLM employee is equivalent to the KGB or engaged in oppression? No. Do I support indiscriminate violence against same? No.

But as I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) there are REASONS why there is a push-back going on, and it involved Federal land grabs and numerous offenses against property owners in certain states, and heavy-handed Fed actions.


The thing that ought to concern everyone is that we've reached a point where grievances against the People have caused some to start viewing any Fedgov agent as an enemy... and to recognize that the reasons why are NOT simply "militia are violent for no reason".
 
I don't really care. Eminent domain should never be used except for truly necessary purposes that benefit the public as a whole, and even then only sparingly.

Well lands taken by force could be either compensated or not. One outcome is preferred over the other.
 
seriously if you believe the National Park service is the KGB leave my country.

Really? If anyone objects to the actions of gov't agents then they should simply pack up and leave the nation? I am sure that you have seen no examples of gov't agents ever doing something wrong, and if they ever should do so then you would expect to see a mass exodus from that surrounding area rather than a "fuss" over the breach of public trust.
 
Indeed it is. Welcome to the USA but beware that their are criminals among the population and some are quite violent. Let me guess that since it is gov't workers then the answer is to arm them or to provide them armed protection at the expense of the general public. ;)

Perhaps you can show us some evidence that it is more dangerous to be a federal civilian worker than say a logger, hunter or trapper on those same lands.
More so in this day and age, as there is an upward spike in violence against park service, forest workers, and blm workers on the job, according to the PEER research group, which stopped reporting of such incidents about two years ago.
 
More so in this day and age, as there is an upward spike in violence against park service, forest workers, and blm workers on the job, according to the PEER research group, which stopped reporting of such incidents about two years ago.


One wonders how much of that involves border smuggling incidents rather than anything militia-related.
 
Strawman arguments. You're either deliberately misrepresenting me or else you didn't even read the post. :mrgreen:

Likewise with your remark about federal employees = KGB. Yours was a deliberate attempt to do something other than to discuss or debate the topic subject in a more logical fashion. There's a word for that, which I will stop short of name calling here.
 
Really? If anyone objects to the actions of gov't agents then they should simply pack up and leave the nation? I am sure that you have seen no examples of gov't agents ever doing something wrong, and if they ever should do so then you would expect to see a mass exodus from that surrounding area rather than a "fuss" over the breach of public trust.

That's what they told me about the Iraq invasion...
 
One wonders how much of that involves border smuggling incidents rather than anything militia-related.

That, plus marijuana crop interdiction on federal land. But, with that being said, when agents go into the field on those types of operations, they are armed. What I'm talking about is usually ordinary citizens attacking everyday ordinary run of the mill workers. Some of the militia groups have been linked to some of the violence, as indicated in my link.
 
I am a citizen. The mistreatment of any citizen by government is of concern to me.



Well, except hippies of course. :lamo



(that was a joke... some of my favorite people are hippies, lol)

So do you have specific examples of mistreatment or what?
 
As you know, terrorists, domestic and international just do not die off or fade into obscurity, they come back at later dates to taunt and plan attacks on innocent people. But, you already knew that, yes?

Whats this got to do with my point? You tried to connect an increase of violence against park rangers to militia's with out any proof of a connection and one of your sources directly stating that it is the sequestrian's fault that more violence has occured due to the sequestrians effect of cut backs and layoffs. Your first link doesn't even describe what kind of violence was happening. For all we know that "violence" was just someone bashing in a park rangers vehicle or punching some park rangers nose for making an offensive comment. Yet you are trying to link all the violence in 2013 to militias.
 
So do you have specific examples of mistreatment or what?



For starters, the water crisis a few years back that came within a hair of violence between outraged citizens and government...
 
One wonders how much of that involves border smuggling incidents rather than anything militia-related.

Google it. It's mostly concentrated in the western states. Try typing violence against federal workers, or violence against forest service, or violence against BLM.

Border smuggling is normally handled by CBP. Drug interdiction (marijuana crops on public-federal lands)is handled by BLM and Forest Service LE.
 
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