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Thread: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

  1. #71
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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Ocean, if we end up paying $8 a gallon for fuel for cars, people will pay it! Oh, we'll all be totally PO'd about it, and we'll scream and holler, but we will pay it, because we love the mobility that cars give us. As more energy efficient cars come to market, like the electric cars did, and if longer distances between recharges become a reality, and if they don't look totally dorky, and are reasonably priced, people will buy them. It seems to me that a lot of jobs could be created just at the recharging stations alone. I think it will happen soon, too, because riding a bike just isn't for everyone. If you have a 40 mile commute from home to your job, and since snow-covered roads are a hazard in the Northern part of the Country, you aren't going to think about riding a bike for six months out of the year.

    Greetings, ocean515.


    $8 per gallon SHOULD be the target price, provided taxation is still 70% or better of that price.

    As gas prices have edged upward in the US, they have been about half what they are here for many years. Right now the winter in-city price, with a special transit levee is $6.90 a gallon. The summer price has hit $7.20 a gallon; the resulting higher transportation costs are not great. The long term effect has been that old beaters have disappeared. Because this is likely the wealthiest city in North America, we have many big urban assault vehicles.

    However, as the price has climbed, the economy has not suffered and the resulting tax revenues are paying for our medical, education, and infrastructure, with a modest personal tax rate as we see here.

    Resources are usually non-renewable, just because we have lots of it doesn't mean we give it away, charge full market price through staged taxation, from exploration to transportation, refining and at the pump.

    But then you have to have politicians with some backbone and the ability to explain **** to the low information voter....and of course be believed. To do that they have to stop lying and your guys haven't matured to that level or something...
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    $8 per gallon SHOULD be the target price, provided taxation is still 70% or better of that price.

    As gas prices have edged upward in the US, they have been about half what they are here for many years. Right now the winter in-city price, with a special transit levee is $6.90 a gallon. The summer price has hit $7.20 a gallon; the resulting higher transportation costs are not great. The long term effect has been that old beaters have disappeared. Because this is likely the wealthiest city in North America, we have many big urban assault vehicles.

    However, as the price has climbed, the economy has not suffered and the resulting tax revenues are paying for our medical, education, and infrastructure, with a modest personal tax rate as we see here.

    Resources are usually non-renewable, just because we have lots of it doesn't mean we give it away, charge full market price through staged taxation, from exploration to transportation, refining and at the pump.

    But then you have to have politicians with some backbone and the ability to explain **** to the low information voter....and of course be believed. To do that they have to stop lying and your guys haven't matured to that level or something...
    Where does one find a "politician with some backbone who also has the ability to explain **** to the low information voter?"

    Greetings, F&L.

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Where does one find a "politician with some backbone who also has the ability to explain **** to the low information voter?"

    Greetings, F&L.

    Move to Canada?
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    $8 per gallon SHOULD be the target price, provided taxation is still 70% or better of that price.
    That's about the most scumbaggiest thing I've ever read in this forum.

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    $8 per gallon SHOULD be the target price, provided taxation is still 70% or better of that price.
    If it was up to me I would just remove the subsidies and all taxation towards gas. Of course, that might be too much of a shock to the system since I'm pretty sure gasoline is not actually marketable at it's unsubsidized rate.

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    My argument has not busted. Not even scratched.

    But your obviously slanted opinion is noted. Unfortunately for you, there are no figures to back your claim. California alone has lost over 30% of it's manufacturing jobs over the last 20 years. For example, where there were once 4 automobile assembly plants in the state, there is now only one, and Tesla hardly counts.

    If you were to apply logic to your feelings, you would discover it is not possible for "rich people", management and the Koch Brothers to pay themselves enough money to account for the loss of good middle income jobs.

    As I suggested, what happens when the topic of regulatory incrementalism is brought up, demagogues like yourself step in and start finger pointing to absurd culprits, without applying any real thought to resolving the issue.
    First, most of what you're arguing against are the points I cited as those made by the writers of the article. I think you missed that everything in my first post - except the beginning and last paragraph - was a summary of the article for the benefit of the OP, who obviously didn't read it. I would place a large wager that you didn't read it either.

    Second, what the article addresses is that other countries have a growing middle class while ours is declining. Canada has just caught up to us. While the loss of manufacturing jobs certainly is terrible for our nation, how losses that happened 20 years ago can account for what is happening now escapes me. Our manufacturing industry is growing, Canada's is in decline, yet their middle class is growing and ours is in decline. If your brain can disregard those trends and yet again repeat "it's tax codes and loss of manufacturing jobs," then there is no reasonable discussion to be had with you.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    I don't think so.

    It's mainly because of anti-union propaganda, horrendous international trade policies and massive immigration.
    I agree on the trade polcies.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    The Democrats who have turned NH into Vermont east with their "tax everyone" mantra just voted yesterday to raise our gas tax, and it's on its way to our Dem governor to sign it into law. WTH? Goodbye, Live Free or Die.

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    First, most of what you're arguing against are the points I cited as those made by the writers of the article. I think you missed that everything in my first post - except the beginning and last paragraph - was a summary of the article for the benefit of the OP, who obviously didn't read it. I would place a large wager that you didn't read it either.

    Second, what the article addresses is that other countries have a growing middle class while ours is declining. Canada has just caught up to us. While the loss of manufacturing jobs certainly is terrible for our nation, how losses that happened 20 years ago can account for what is happening now escapes me. Our manufacturing industry is growing, Canada's is in decline, yet their middle class is growing and ours is in decline. If your brain can disregard those trends and yet again repeat "it's tax codes and loss of manufacturing jobs," then there is no reasonable discussion to be had with you.
    Our manufacturing basis is not growing, that is a fact. A well known fact. The United States is becoming a service economy, focused on selling and repairing other countries products. If this well known fact is unfamiliar to you, or if it is known and you reject it, then I agree, there is no reasonable discussion to be had.

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    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Our manufacturing basis is not growing, that is a fact. A well known fact. The United States is becoming a service economy, focused on selling and repairing other countries products. If this well known fact is unfamiliar to you, or if it is known and you reject it, then I agree, there is no reasonable discussion to be had.
    Oh, well I'm sure that you've got some charts and numbers that you can point to if you're right. Since the end of 2009, how many manufacturing jobs have we lost? Surely you know.

    The manufacturing industry took a huge hit in the mid 90s and was in decline until 2010. Since then, we've had gains every year. But don't believe me, believe a reputable news organization. Again, in the last 5 years, the US has had growth in manufacturing, Canada has not. Here's another article which challenges everything you're saying.

    EDIT: I remembered that you didn't actually read the article in the OP, so I shouldn't expect you to read these articles. I'll quote the most essential part:

    Manufacturing lost 2.3 million jobs during the 2007-09 recession and has so far recovered 622,000.
    A working class hero is something to be

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