Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 114

Thread: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

  1. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Denio Junction
    Last Seen
    11-13-14 @ 12:09 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    We take so much from those who actually work and give to those who just want to play x box and the numbers are staggering. 13 million working American's pay 70% of the tax bill for 320 million people. It won't work - its a system that will follow that of rome in history.


    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/up...t.html?hp&_r=0


    Thanks to govt debt and tax laws as far as I'm concerned.

  2. #32
    Guru
    HenryChinaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Chitown
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    3,533

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Blame direct taxes and pandering for this, respectively.
    You want zero social programs and the upper crust to pay zero taxes.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

  3. #33
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    What you're ignoring is the fact that economic growth in the United States is stable, and is equal to or better than the other countries mentioned in this article. The US leads the world in income from manufacturing jobs. Well, that was true until 2011, when China topped us, but China has a slight advantage in terms of its gigantic population. Manufacturing has improved in recent years, as well. There were plenty of jobs lost due to outsourcing, but the money never stopped flowing. You are right, though, that the money from the manufacturing industry started increasingly flowing to rich people, executives, and the Koch Brothers.

    Still, other countries - Canada is a good one to mention - has a growing middle class whose median income has exceeded the median income in the United States. Yet Canada's manufacturing industry isn't growing any faster than ours. Their manufacturing jobs have actually been decreasing.

    So our manufacturing industry is getting larger, and Canada's is getting smaller. And yet their median income now exceeds ours. I believe your argument has been busted, sir.
    My argument has not busted. Not even scratched.

    But your obviously slanted opinion is noted. Unfortunately for you, there are no figures to back your claim. California alone has lost over 30% of it's manufacturing jobs over the last 20 years. For example, where there were once 4 automobile assembly plants in the state, there is now only one, and Tesla hardly counts.

    If you were to apply logic to your feelings, you would discover it is not possible for "rich people", management and the Koch Brothers to pay themselves enough money to account for the loss of good middle income jobs.

    As I suggested, what happens when the topic of regulatory incrementalism is brought up, demagogues like yourself step in and start finger pointing to absurd culprits, without applying any real thought to resolving the issue.

  4. #34
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Globalization has taken the manufacturing jobs and they aren't coming back. Rather than trying to emulate and compete with 3rd world economies by racing to the bottom we should focus on high technology, science, advancing our civilization to the next level. To do this we need heavy investment in higher education, particularly STEM.
    I don't share your opinion about manufacturing jobs not coming back. I have owned manufacturing businesses for over 35 years and I can tell you from experience offshoring production is a difficult and costly business. The picture one has of some kind of foreign sweatshop banging out cheap components by people making pennies a day is a false one, by and large.

    The trick is trying to get this production back into the US in an affordable manner, while minimizing the regulatory barriers that have been set up by overstepping state and federal agencies.

    I do completely agree with you about STEM. I am a major supporter of efforts to emphasize this area of education which has been grossly ignored. I go as far as to suggest government backed loans for college only be granted for students seeking degrees within those disciplines. I have 18 engineers in my employment, and I believe only three of them were born in the United States. That is ridiculous.

    We are in the beginning stages of the next industrial revolution, a revolution involving energy, and it seems the government along with a multitude of regulatory agencies are doing everything they can to ensure the US does not participate in this revolution.

  5. #35
    Heavy Hitter


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    63,582

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I don't share your opinion about manufacturing jobs not coming back. I have owned manufacturing businesses for over 35 years and I can tell you from experience offshoring production is a difficult and costly business. The picture one has of some kind of foreign sweatshop banging out cheap components by people making pennies a day is a false one, by and large.

    The trick is trying to get this production back into the US in an affordable manner, while minimizing the regulatory barriers that have been set up by overstepping state and federal agencies.

    I do completely agree with you about STEM. I am a major supporter of efforts to emphasize this area of education which has been grossly ignored. I go as far as to suggest government backed loans for college only be granted for students seeking degrees within those disciplines. I have 18 engineers in my employment, and I believe only three of them were born in the United States. That is ridiculous.

    We are in the beginning stages of the next industrial revolution, a revolution involving energy, and it seems the government along with a multitude of regulatory agencies are doing everything they can to ensure the US does not participate in this revolution.
    I agree with everything except your last sentence. We are currently the world leaders in petroleum engineering. No one competes with us in efficient energy extraction.

    Oh, and weapons...I think we can add aerospace and weapons design to the mix of things on which no one else can hold a candle to the US.

    USA is a pragmatic nation, and although we are not going all-in on solar and nuclear research like some Euro nations, no one can extract from the ground what is readily available as efficiently and effectively as the US. The energy revolution is on, and it is being witnessed in Ohio, PA, CO, and ND, where trillions of BTU are being extracted in the form of nat gas and deeply buried oil. I expect we will see much more out in the deep sea before any need arises for "alternative" energy.

  6. #36
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I agree with everything except your last sentence. We are currently the world leaders in petroleum engineering. No one competes with us in efficient energy extraction.

    Oh, and weapons...I think we can add aerospace and weapons design to the mix of things on which no one else can hold a candle to the US.

    USA is a pragmatic nation, and although we are not going all-in on solar and nuclear research like some Euro nations, no one can extract from the ground what is readily available as efficiently and effectively as the US. The energy revolution is on, and it is being witnessed in Ohio, PA, CO, and ND, where trillions of BTU are being extracted in the form of nat gas and deeply buried oil. I expect we will see much more out in the deep sea before any need arises for "alternative" energy.
    This is all true. However, what is also true is the massive changes coming to the distribution and use of energy. This would include in both home and business. This would include retrofitting and upgrading. Roadways and other means of transportation are prime for upgrades as well.

    The challenge is how the government allows for these areas of opportunity to be addressed by the business community. If, for example, it goes the way it has with the auto industry, we will continue to shift production out of country in order to keep final price targets in line with what the public is willing to pay.

  7. #37
    Heavy Hitter


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    63,582

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    This is all true. However, what is also true is the massive changes coming to the distribution and use of energy. This would include in both home and business. This would include retrofitting and upgrading. Roadways and other means of transportation are prime for upgrades as well.

    The challenge is how the government allows for these areas of opportunity to be addressed by the business community. If, for example, it goes the way it has with the auto industry, we will continue to shift production out of country in order to keep final price targets in line with what the public is willing to pay.
    There is no question about it. Our lack of infrastructural investment here is a disgrace. We've all seen a nation which used to pride itself on community reinvestment shift to become a short term gain, minimum taxation fiefdom of gated wealthy communities and crumbling inner cites. Meanwhile the countries in Europe and Asia have invested in high speed trains, fiber optic internet and built cities that are not only state of the art but actually art.

  8. #38
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    If, for example, it goes the way it has with the auto industry, we will continue to shift production out of country in order to keep final price targets in line with what the public is willing to pay.
    Therein lies the rub. For example, in CA, the ex-governor decided to save tax money, he would outsource work on the Golden Gate Bridge. That went to China and while slave labor wages were paid to the workers, we got a cheap bridge in return. That bridge could have been built by Americans. Even if labor was more expensive, that money would have went right back into our economy. Instead it went overseas. We lost big time because of this tax craze mentality.

  9. #39
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,422
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    These conclusions are absurd and completely ignore the primary basis for the changes. At the heart of the matter is the dramatic loss in manufacturing jobs in the United States. Until we address this fact with honest conversations and actions, the transition to servicing other countries products will continue.

    The first place to start, which continues to be ignored, is the intense regulatory environment we ask small business to operate in. What typically happens is the demagogues step in and start a finger pointing session that includes words like greed and exploitation, with massive doses of "shipping jobs overseas" thrown in. In response to honest hardworking businesspeople seeking relief we get narratives from the regulators that suggest those seeking help want a business environment void of any regulation at all. Oh what a barren landscape they paint! Blade Runner gone wild.

    The bottom line is, it is impossible to create middle class wealth by earning a portion of what is charged per hour to process paperwork, or fix a computer. Until we can once again generate good wages across a broad line of manufactured goods, it will be nothing but meaningless words, empty promises, and pointless accusations.

    The rich will always be rich, Dude.
    While regulations and taxes are factors, the simple fact is that one can get 32 semi skilled workers for 14hrs for what one minimum wage worker gets for eight here.

    That is the draw. I don't see how even no taxes or regulations could possibly counter that differential.

    I have never read anything that even begins to challenge this simple fact.

    Until Americans can afford to accept $2/day, the middle class will continue to dissolve.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  10. #40
    Left the building
    Fearandloathing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada Dual citizen
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,404

    Re: The American Middle Class Is No Longer the World’s Richest

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Globalization has taken the manufacturing jobs and they aren't coming back. Rather than trying to emulate and compete with 3rd world economies by racing to the bottom we should focus on high technology, science, advancing our civilization to the next level. To do this we need heavy investment in higher education, particularly STEM.
    Not "taken", deliberately exported by the US.

    Remember the Clinton era support for "globilization"?

    Now you have it,. say thanks Billary.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •