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Thread: New York does away with Electoral College

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    I'm not in favor of getting rid of the electoral college, but I don't feel strongly about it and if it's voted out then I'm fine with it.

    But I find this particular method to be extremely distasteful and wrong. For all the complaints that the electoral college devalues the votes of some individuals in a state, this would do so even greater. If 80% of a state went towards one candidate, but the popular vote went another way, then that states population would essentially have been deprived of their ability to vote in the federal system of note in this country. That's amazingly wrong in my mind.

    If you want to get rid of it then go about the actions to get rid of it. Actions like this however just seem like foot stomping temper tantrums that set up more harm than good.

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Video @:[/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_35DiUNLZI
    More found @: New York joins campaign to end Electoral College role in presidential elections - NY Daily News

    Honestly, I think we should get rid of the electoral college. I believe it only makes sense. If we are a democracy, why not be a democracy that elects its highest leader? I mean it only makes sense.. I mean I know what some people are going to say, "hey we arent a democracy, we are a republic!". But you can be a republic and a democracy at the same time. The electoral college is outdated and irrational with our political climate and system.
    Until a Conservative gets 51% of the vote, then you'll be begging for the electoral college to be applied.
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    It's not outdated.

    The result of dissolution of the electoral college will be the removal of one more hedge against federal supremacy. Little by little the states are ceding their power and their responsibilities to the federal government. In time the states will become nothing more than the answer to a trivia question and state governments will be strictly figurative. There will be no restraints on the federal government which will become more and more insulated from the people who will have less and less autonomy as we transition from a nation based on natural rights into one based on civil rights.
    Honestly at this stage of the game I'm not so sure doing away with states would be all that bad. The federal government is already supreme and the states have lost enough autonomy that we're very nearly at the point where states are virtually nothing more than another taxing authority and bureaucracy that can make your life miserable.

    In theory the electoral college protects smaller states by giving them the ability to throw all their electoral votes to one candidate. In reality since most states are winner-takes-all, states that are comfortably blue or red and pretty much ignored by candidates in favor of the so called battleground states. A large minority of US citizens are effectively disenfranchised because they happen to be members of the minority party in the state that they live in.
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Video @:[/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_35DiUNLZI
    More found @: New York joins campaign to end Electoral College role in presidential elections - NY Daily News

    Honestly, I think we should get rid of the electoral college. I believe it only makes sense. If we are a democracy, why not be a democracy that elects its highest leader? I mean it only makes sense.. I mean I know what some people are going to say, "hey we arent a democracy, we are a republic!". But you can be a republic and a democracy at the same time. The electoral college is outdated and irrational with our political climate and system.
    The electoral college was established for reason and that was to temper popularism somewhat while allowing the less populated states to have some amount of input into the system. We are a democratic republic even with the EC and I see no reason to get rid of the EC.
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    By all means, let's let Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York decide all things for all people in all places.

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The electoral college was established for reason and that was to temper popularism somewhat while allowing the less populated states to have some amount of input into the system. We are a democratic republic even with the EC and I see no reason to get rid of the EC.
    Good point! But you're also missing an important aspect of the design of the EC. It's a way to help reinforce the idea of Balance of Powers. The House is designed to be the voice of the People, the Senate is the voice of the States. As you said, combining the two prevents either the People from enforcing the dictatorship of the 51% or the large States simply riding roughshod over the will of the people. We need both perspectives involved in this decision.
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Tell me Lutherf, how do you feel knowing that the only meaningful ballot you cast for federal elections are for house representatives? So half of the legislative branch.
    Because the senators are elected by the state legislatures and the president is elected by electors, again, state electors where it's all or nothing.

    You talk about "direct democracy" as in, the tyranny of the masses because you incorrectly assume democracy to always mean direct democracy. Fine.
    Direct democracy is that if you are in a state and you vote democrat but 50% + 1 voted republican, all the votes that went to democrat mean nothing anymore because all the electors from that state go to the republicans. So you're nullifying 50% -1 of the population in that state. As opposed to real democracy without the electoral college where each of the votes would matter. So the tyranny of the masses exists in each state when there is a presidential election now. How about them apples?

    And did u watch the video? How you can win with just 22% of the population? Here, I'll post it again just for you.
    I appreciate you posting the video again as my eyesight and comprehension are lost without youtube.

    Our system of government was designed from the ground up to put the majority of the political power (and political responsibility) in the hands of the people of the states. The idea was that if we made the political units at the local level the most responsible for the most stuff then the people would be most able to hold them accountable. As one ascended the political ladder there was supposed to be less responsibility delegated to government, not more.

    The problem we are having in this country isn't due to the electoral college. It's due to the people ceding too much power to two political parties who both, at their core, only want more political power. In Europe you guys probably just look at this as a novelty. You've ALWAYS had a political class but in America it's a relatively new thing and some of us are VERY resistant to the concept. They seem to be making an end run around the whole concept of the Constitution and LOTS of people are cheering it on. Hell, you can see it in this thread. Half the damned respondents seem to think our government was designed and should best be handled as a "top down" structure. They're perfectly happy being pawns in the game.

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Video @:[/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_35DiUNLZI
    More found @: New York joins campaign to end Electoral College role in presidential elections - NY Daily News

    Honestly, I think we should get rid of the electoral college. I believe it only makes sense. If we are a democracy, why not be a democracy that elects its highest leader? I mean it only makes sense.. I mean I know what some people are going to say, "hey we arent a democracy, we are a republic!". But you can be a republic and a democracy at the same time. The electoral college is outdated and irrational with our political climate and system.
    I vehemently disagree. Democracy is mob rule. I despise mobs of any form.
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    The electoral college isn't going anywhere. Any state that joins this compact can easily withdraw. When the majority in a state goes for candidate D and their electoral votes go to candidate R, there will be serious howling.

    There is still nothing to prevent faithless electors so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
    That's not what's going to happen.

    In a state like NY you'll see NYC, Albany and Buffalo vote Democrat. Everyone else will vote Republican but it will still only be 35-40% of the total votes cast and all electors will go to the Democrats. There's really no good reason to even put a presidential candidate on the ballot as it's going to go to the majority party in the state no matter what.

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's not what's going to happen.

    In a state like NY you'll see NYC, Albany and Buffalo vote Democrat. Everyone else will vote Republican but it will still only be 35-40% of the total votes cast and all electors will go to the Democrats. There's really no good reason to even put a presidential candidate on the ballot as it's going to go to the majority party in the state no matter what.
    On this thread, NY electoral votes will go to whichever candidate got the most individual votes nationally regardless of how NY voted.

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