Page 3 of 28 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 277

Thread: New York does away with Electoral College

  1. #21
    Sage
    Lutherf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,697

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So, as I see it. Getting rid of the elctoral college will mean that the states will essentially have no power? What about the constitution givign the states power? What about state and local government? What about all of that? Will getting rid of the electoral college essentially bring an end to federalism? Are you saying its a slipper slope? I mean if thats true, I would say that is absolutely ridiculous and a strawman.
    The Constitution doesn't grant the states power. The states grant certain powers to the federal government via the Constitution. Why is it that so many people fail to understand that most basic concept?

  2. #22
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wtf are you talking about? Overcame? Overcame what?
    Excuse my beer for speaking on that term..


    More nonsense. The Electoral College issue is not dependent on race, sex, or even orientation.
    Stop trying to inject irrelevant **** that has no bearing on the question.
    The purpose was to give the individual States representation as a State. That has not be overcome, nor could it.
    Why? What purpose does it represent!? If the POTUS is supposed to represent the county as a WHOLE why should one state get more votes than anohter thus deciding an election in which it supposed to represent the country as a whole?

    No this Country wouldn't be the same.
    It would fundamentally have changed.
    How so?
    Still waiting on that answer...


    Are you not paying attention?
    From indirect to direct.
    Direct demoracy means you as an individual citizen has the right to vote for a speicifc policy... Example, lets say a vote comes up on if crack cocaine should be legal, meaning you have the right to go to a congress and vote yes or no a long with everyone else. That is direct democracy.
    Indirect means simply, you vote for someone to represent you in a congress/office. If we moved to popular vote of a POTUS that still means its a indirect democracy..

    That is a fundamental change.
    Nope. Really not at all.

    Nor can you show any advantage to changing it from the way it is.
    Uhh the popular will is followed. The controversy of 2000 would of never happened....



    Stop being silly.
    I said; "You think it will more easily lead to socialistic policy." And you do think that, which is why you advocate it.
    I'm not being silly, since the the Commission of Presidential Debates is ran by GOP and Democratic officials, and since the USSC has basically unlimmitted $$ in the elections I wouldnt fear any socialists getting popular in the race soon..


  3. #23
    Sage
    Lutherf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,697

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    If we got rid of the electoral college candidates would only need to actively run in California, Texas, New York, and Florida. The rest of the country will no longer matter.
    That's about right.

  4. #24
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    LOL!!

    You may recall that the direct election of Senators is a relatively recent thing. It may also be pure coincidence but it also came hot on the heels of the 16th amendment. That was one hell of a year for the expansion of the federal government, wouldn't you say?
    Ok... And how did that lead to anything you said in your post?


  5. #25
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    One of the main reasons for the electoral college is because information traveled at the speed of horse in 1789. No accurate winner could be selected with any haste and the potential for mistakes was enormous. Putting the election in tiers (electoral district > state > nation) helped ensure an accurate result. In the age of telephones, computers, and the internet, there is no such need.

    The real effect of the electoral college is that presidents have to campaign for states, instead of campaigning for the entire nation. This is horrendously stupid. No single state's interests should hold such a large sway. And even worse, only a few state's interests end up having that sway. Presidents should be concerned with national issues, not state ones. And everyone's vote should count the same, not strengthened or weakened based on the completely fictional concern that large states vote homogeneously and can run the entire nation.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #26
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    The Constitution doesn't grant the states power. The states grant certain powers to the federal government via the Constitution. Why is it that so many people fail to understand that most basic concept?
    I realize what the consitution grants. But how does this lead to anything you posted earlier?


  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-26-14 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,032

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Democracy is simply a step toward totalitarianism. The sad part is that most people won't realize that we've stepped off that cliff even after we hit bottom.
    Tell me Lutherf, how do you feel knowing that the only meaningful ballot you cast for federal elections are for house representatives? So half of the legislative branch.
    Because the senators are elected by the state legislatures and the president is elected by electors, again, state electors where it's all or nothing.

    You talk about "direct democracy" as in, the tyranny of the masses because you incorrectly assume democracy to always mean direct democracy. Fine.
    Direct democracy is that if you are in a state and you vote democrat but 50% + 1 voted republican, all the votes that went to democrat mean nothing anymore because all the electors from that state go to the republicans. So you're nullifying 50% -1 of the population in that state. As opposed to real democracy without the electoral college where each of the votes would matter. So the tyranny of the masses exists in each state when there is a presidential election now. How about them apples?

    And did u watch the video? How you can win with just 22% of the population? Here, I'll post it again just for you.

  8. #28
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why? What purpose does it represent!? If the POTUS is supposed to represent the county as a WHOLE why should one state get more votes than anohter thus deciding an election in which it supposed to represent the country as a whole?
    Around and around we go. You ask that which you were already told.
    You even quoted it. D'Oh!
    "The purpose was to give the individual States representation as a State. That has not been overcome, nor could it. "
    The President is the President of the Union of States. Do you really not understand that? Do you really not understand what the term "President of the United States of America" means?
    It is the States that elect whom they want to represent them in the Union. Not the People.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    How so?
    Still waiting on that answer...
    Still asking for that which you were already told.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Direct demoracy means you as an individual citizen has the right to vote for a speicifc policy... Example, lets say a vote comes up on if crack cocaine should be legal, meaning you have the right to go to a congress and vote yes or no a long with everyone else. That is direct democracy.
    Indirect means simply, you vote for someone to represent you in a congress/office. If we moved to popular vote of a POTUS that still means its a indirect democracy..
    Oh spare us the bs.
    We are specifically talking about the election of a President.
    Doing away with the Electoral College makes it a direct vote of the People, not the indirect representation it currently is.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Nope. Really not at all.
    Yes really. Indirect to direct, is a fundamental change.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Uhh the popular will is followed.
    iLOL That is not an advantage.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    The controversy of 2000 would of never happened....
    More absurdities.
    There was nothing wrong with what happened.
    The system operated as it should.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I'm not being silly, since the the Commission of Presidential Debates is ran by GOP and Democratic officials, and since the USSC has basically unlimmitted $$ in the elections I wouldnt fear any socialists getting popular in the race soon..
    Yes you are being silly. Any incremental step towards socialistic policy is what you support.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  9. #29
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,383

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    It isn't ineffective or outdated.

    I think the main problem here is folks do not understand why our Republic was set up the way it was, and instead simply just think it is only about representation of the people as a whole, when it is about a mixture of direct and indirect representation.
    You remove the indirect representation, you fundamentally change what this Nation is.
    We have been doing just that since the 1800's because Democracy makes more sense now than it did when the Constitution was written. Their really had not been any Democracies in the 1700's so the founders chose to use "safety nets" like the electoral college. We have long abandoned the choosing of Senators by State legislatures and the electoral college is not really functional in the way it was envisioned either. It's high time we swept away the last vestiges of the 18th century in our political system.

  10. #30
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    23,383

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    The Constitution doesn't grant the states power. The states grant certain powers to the federal government via the Constitution. Why is it that so many people fail to understand that most basic concept?
    And why is that? Could it be that in order to get the States to ratify and join the union the founders granted inordinate power to the States? Could it also be that as time went by the elected representatives and Supreme Court reduced those powers to strengthen the union and the country? We are no longer a federation of individual States and haven't been for a long long time.

Page 3 of 28 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •