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Thread: New York does away with Electoral College

  1. #161
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    The electoral collage was crafted so that heavily populated northern industrial states couldn't abuse thinly populated agricultural southern states. It's not outdated and serves the same useful purpose today.
    The electoral college does not prevent that at all, nor is that an issue at hand anymore.


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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    A nation cannot be a republic and a democracy at the same time and this nation is a republic.
    Of course it can. Its called a democratic republic. We are a democratic republic. We elect offcicials to represent us in office. That is representative democracy. We are also a republic, so therfore we are a democratic republic.


    Demacracy is nothing more than tyranny hence the complex electoral college.
    You have a weird definition of tyranny.

    Many have called for the abolition of the EC for the last two centuries. According to one historian over two hundred amendments have been proposed in that time and all of them defeated.
    Ok.


    I may be wrong but I'm confident that NY and other states are stuck with the EC until the constitution is amended they may not simply pledge their votes to whom ever.
    And I agree.


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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    You hit the nail on the hit if we were a democracy. We are a Republic made up of the several states. But we have been heading more and more towards a direct democracy since the passage of the 17th amendment the erosion of state powers by the federal government.
    Direct democracy is when the people themselves vote on individual issues instead of representatives. We have always been a democratic republic that uses representative democracy.


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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    In light of that comment I don't think that you personally understand what you're saying.

    As long as you're not saying that's a personal attack, which is the way I interpreted your response, then we're good.
    No we are not good.
    You again made it personal.
    The fact that you did it again strongly suggests that you meant it as an attack.
    So I suggest you just stop.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    WRONG!!!!
    Yes you are wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    It (republicanism, indirect democracy, and etc...) was implemented by rich white male property owners (the Founding Fathers) in order to keep rich white male property owners rich, in charge, and in full possession of their property.

    The "tyranny of the majority" that Tocqueville talked about, and the Founders understood as a threat, was the reason for it.

    And?

    We are talking specifically about the EC. It is indirect representation and there for state representation among the Union.
    The State being a separate entity and all.
    This hasn't changed.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Legislation, case law, and judicial activism has taken a lot of the teeth out of what the Founders intended.
    We are talking specifically about the EC, and all you do is keep peddling this bs with out backing it up.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    A perfect "case in point" is the federal income tax, another is universal suffrage, the welfare state is a third.
    Wrong. Has nothing to do with the EC or it's purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    If you don't think that any of those (you can Google the actual laws yourself, if you must) has fundamentally changed the nature of the nation the Founders established then I seriously question your ability to think rationally.

    They've all been end-runs around the proscription against a tyranny of the majority.
    Figures you can't back up what you say so you tell the other person to google it.

    And again, this is specifically about the EC. Not everything else. Do try to stay focused.



    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    but if you think John Adams, Gouveneur Morris, Edward Routledge, James Wilson, Philip Schuyler, and the other more "conservative" Founding Fathers would recognize our nation today as the nation that they helped found - if you don't think they'd look at what we have and say to themselves, "Wow, they've changed things significantly", you're wrong.
    Wtf are you talking about?
    Did anybody say any such thing to make such a comment/suggestion?


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Yeah, hilarious.
    Yeah hilarious. Especially as we are talking about the EC, and you are ranting about things other then.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    What happens when there is a recount?
    What do you mean? They recount the ballots. Same way they do it now.


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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No we are not good.
    You again made it personal.
    The fact that you did it again strongly suggests that you meant it as an attack.
    So I suggest you just stop.
    I'll ask a mod to look into it.

    It strikes me as preposterous that if you make a comment and I think you're wrong because you don't have a firm understanding of the topic under discussion that my saying so is a personal attack on you.

    I can understand if I was calling you names or something, but to just say that you're wrong or you don't understand isn't a personal attack.

    I'm going to drop this conversation with you until I can get some clarification from the "powers that be".
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  7. #167
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What do you mean? They recount the ballots. Same way they do it now.
    Well, if the popular vote is so close that they need a recount, but a non-signatory state has, say , a 10% margin that wouldn't warrant a recount then how can the signatory states force the non-signatory state to spend state money on a recount?

    A popular vote system would require all votes in all states be recounted.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    The electoral college does not prevent that at all, nor is that an issue at hand anymore.
    You couldn't possibly be more incorrect. The electoral college insures that presidential elections aren't dictated by the narrow interests of New York and California. It also gives a voice in the political process to the heartland.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    It strikes me as preposterous that if you make a comment and I think you're wrong because you don't have a firm understanding of the topic under discussion that my saying so is a personal attack on you.
    I see you still wish to play ignorant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I'm actually of the opinion that you're the one who doesn't understand why our Republic was set up the way it was.

    The underlined is what makes it personal.
    Which if I may point out, is different than saying you are of the opinion that my opinion is wrong, or that you think my opinion is wrong or that what I said is wrong.
    Which of course addresses what was said, and not the person.
    Which would be why I did not address any specific person when I said the following.
    "I think the main problem here is folks do not understand why our Republic was set up the way it was"
    Which I might add, has been demonstrated thought this thread.
    It is all in the wording and you know it.

    As I later said, I didn't think it was an attack, but it was personal.

    But the fact that you later did it again, is highly suggestive that you meant it as a personal attack.

    Regardless, no one can determine if that was what you meant or not.
    But it is obvious that you are now just playing a game to deflect from your inability to support your claims.
    Heck, you couldn't even stay focused on the EC.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  10. #170
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    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Well, if the popular vote is so close that they need a recount, but a non-signatory state has, say , a 10% margin that wouldn't warrant a recount then how can the signatory states force the non-signatory state to spend state money on a recount?

    A popular vote system would require all votes in all states be recounted.
    The only way that the electoral college can go away in a unifying manner is through a constitutional amendment.


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