Page 16 of 28 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 277

Thread: New York does away with Electoral College

  1. #151
    Guru
    soot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    04-25-17 @ 03:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,308

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    It isn't ineffective or outdated.

    I think the main problem here is folks do not understand why our Republic was set up the way it was...
    I'm actually of the opinion that you're the one who doesn't understand why our Republic was set up the way it was.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  2. #152
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,945
    Blog Entries
    25

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    On February 12, 2014, the Oklahoma Senate passed the National Popular Vote bill by a 28–18 margin.
    The National Popular Vote bill has passed 33 state legislative chambers, in 22 rural, small, medium, and large population states, including one house in the recent battleground states of Michigan (16), Nevada (6), New Mexico (5), North Carolina (15), and both houses in Colorado (9) .
    The bill has passed 33 state legislative chambers, in 22 small, medium-small, medium, and large states.

    In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided).

    Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls
    in recent or past closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA --75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%;
    in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%;
    in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and
    in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%.

    The National Popular Vote bill says: "Any member state may withdraw from this agreement, except that a withdrawal occurring six months or less before the end of a President’s term shall not become effective until a President or Vice President shall have been qualified to serve the next term."

    Any attempt by a state to pull out of the compact in violation of its terms would violate the Impairments Clause of the U.S. Constitution and would be void. Such an attempt would also violate existing federal law. Compliance would be enforced by Federal court action

    The National Popular Vote compact is, first of all, a state law. It is a state law that would govern the manner of choosing presidential electors. A Secretary of State may not ignore or override the National Popular Vote law any more than he or she may ignore or override the winner-take-all method that is currently the law in 48 states.

    There has never been a court decision allowing a state to withdraw from an interstate compact without following the procedure for withdrawal specified by the compact. Indeed, courts have consistently rebuffed the occasional (sometimes creative) attempts by states to evade their obligations under interstate compacts

    An interstate compact is not a mere “handshake” agreement. If a state wants to rely on the goodwill and graciousness of other states to follow certain policies, it can simply enact its own state law and hope that other states decide to act in an identical manner. If a state wants a legally binding and enforceable mechanism by which it agrees to undertake certain specified actions only if other states agree to take other specified actions, it enters into an interstate compact.

    Interstate compacts are supported by over two centuries of settled law guaranteeing enforceability. Interstate compacts exist because the states are sovereign. If there were no Compacts Clause in the U.S. Constitution, a state would have no way to enter into a legally binding contract with another state. The Compacts Clause, supported by the Impairments Clause, provides a way for a state to enter into a contract with other states and be assured of the enforceability of the obligations undertaken by its sister states. The enforceability of interstate compacts under the Impairments Clause is precisely the reason why sovereign states enter into interstate compacts. Without the Compacts Clause and the Impairments Clause, any contractual agreement among the states would be, in fact, no more than a handshake.
    This is a long way of saying, the compact means nothing. The Constitution gives the state the right to choose their electors anyway they want. Today when we vote we are voting for a slate of electors, not for the president although the presidential candidates names are on the ballot to simplify things. Still once a state chooses its electors, those electors can vote for whom ever they want which has happened in the past. But rogue electors are very rare these days.

    It is pretty much like I said in a couple of post, for the most part the American Republic is dead. We are more of a direct democracy and becoming more so everyday except for old relics like the electoral college.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #153
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,696

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Reading deeper into this story is appears that the headline and reporting on this story is extremely misleading.

    THis compact will, apparently, not take effect until 270 Electoral votes have been locked up in the deal. Once there are 270 EVs in this pact all the other state elections become meaningless because the pact EVs would be sufficient to determine the winner.

    So no, New York hasn't done away with the Electoral College.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  4. #154
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    "THOSE THAT HOLD THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM WILL BE A TYRANT"

    in American government of the founders, power in divided up!

    the house of representatives is a democracy it is a direct democratic vote of the people, and it presents the ............interest of the people

    the senate is an aristocracy, it is a direct vote of the state legislatures, and it is non democratic vote of a few, it represents the.............. interest of the states

    RIGHT THERE!..........power in divided into 2 parts.....NEITHER part, has all of the power...........no one------------> "holds the keys to the kingdom"

    the president under the founders IS considered a monarch, to be elected by electors for the states......and those electors have in early American history been chosen by the 1.state legislatures, 2.chosen by a general election ticket of each state, 3.and chosen by districts of each state........however this has been changed by the politicians, who now chose the electors by party line.

    the idea of the electoral college is for a few people of the states to elect the President in DECEMBER.

    by having electors elect the president it makes it a non democratic vote......steering America clear of democratic government.


    so you have 1 democratic vote for the house, and 2 non democratic votes for senate and the President, making it a republican form of government and not a democratic form.

    since all three members of the government are elected by 3 different groups of people--------------"no one holds the keys to the kingdom"

    since no one single group who gets elected .......holds the "KEYS"......no one can become a tyrant.

    in democratic forms of government, the people hold the "keys to the kingdom", they are the dominate factor of democratic government, and are tyrants because they govern by Majority Rule.


    the u.s. government of the founders is a republican form of government...know as ..."mixed government"[federalist 40 by James Madison]

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_government


    ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS????
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-24-14 at 03:22 PM.

  5. #155
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I'm actually of the opinion that you're the one who doesn't understand why our Republic was set up the way it was.
    Hmmm? Making it personal off the bat, figures.

    The purpose it was implemented for still serves today.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  6. #156
    Guru
    soot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    04-25-17 @ 03:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,308

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Hmmm? Making it personal off the bat, figures.
    Dude, telling you that I think you're wrong isn't a personal attack.

    You've never told anyone around here that you think they're wrong?

    The purpose it was implemented for still serves today.
    Yes and no.

    There's been a lot of legislation and case law that has changed the manner in which it serves significantly.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  7. #157
    Guru
    sawdust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    03-04-16 @ 09:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,177

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    Those "thinly populated agricultural southern states" were populated with slaves and their owners.
    Do you have a point?
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  8. #158
    Resident Martian ;)
    PirateMk1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    9,925

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Okay, I have to explain this. Why I do not think this compact will not last and is a fad. All ten states are solid Democratic states that have agree with this, not one swing state or Republican state. Now keep in mind in the Electoral College there are what I call trustworthy states, states one party or the other can be counted on as pretty much automatically casting their electorate votes to that party. There are 43 of these states and DC. 7 state are swing or toss up states.

    Today the Democrats have 256 Electoral votes in their trustworthy column, although a couple of states like Pennsylvania and Michigan might be argued over. The Republicans have only 191 electoral votes in their trustworthy states with the remaining electoral votes coming from the swing/tossup states. 270 needed to win.

    Let’s say in 2016 Jeb Bush defeats Hillary Clinton by give or take one million votes in the popular vote total. But Hillary won all the Democrats trustworthy states plus Virginia and Iowa which would give Hillary a 275-261 victory in the Electoral College. Do you really expect heavily Democratic New York or California, Maryland, New Jersey, D.C., or any of the other states that are members of this compact to actually give all their electoral votes to Jeb Bush if he won the popular vote, but lost in those states? I do not think so. If they did the people of those states, the loyal Democratic voters would be up in arms, rioting in the streets, etc. etc. etc.

    I think as long as a Democrat wins the popular vote, the compact holds. If a Republican won the popular vote as in the example above, that compact would go the way of the old Warsaw Pact.
    Sounds probable to me.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  9. #159
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 01:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,997

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Dude, telling you that I think you're wrong isn't a personal attack.
    First off, I said making it personal off the bat.
    I said nothing about an attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I'm actually of the opinion that you're the one who doesn't understand why our Republic was set up the way it was.

    The underlined is what makes it personal.
    Which if I may point out, is different than saying you are of the opinion that my opinion is wrong, or that you think my opinion is wrong or that what I said is wrong.
    Which of course addresses what was said, and not the person.
    Which would be why I did not address any specific person when I said the following.
    "I think the main problem here is folks do not understand why our Republic was set up the way it was"
    Which I might add, has been demonstrated thought this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    You've never told anyone around here that you think they're wrong?
    Of course I tell people they are wrong when they are. I usually say; Wrong! And if necessary, include why.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Yes [...]
    Nough said.


    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    There's been a lot of legislation and case law that has changed the manner in which it serves significantly.
    No. Not really.
    But since you seem to think so, Get a postin' this legislation and case law that you thinks "changed the manner in which it serves significantly".
    Legislation changing the manner in which it serves significantly. Oy Vey! That is hilarious.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  10. #160
    Guru
    soot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    04-25-17 @ 03:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,308

    Re: New York does away with Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The underlined is what makes it personal.
    You made a comment.

    In light of that comment I don't think that you personally understand what you're saying.

    As long as you're not saying that's a personal attack, which is the way I interpreted your response, then we're good.

    Nough said.
    WRONG!!!!

    It (republicanism, indirect democracy, and etc...) was implemented by rich white male property owners (the Founding Fathers) in order to keep rich white male property owners rich, in charge, and in full possession of their property.

    The "tyranny of the majority" that Tocqueville talked about, and the Founders understood as a threat, was the reason for it.

    Legislation, case law, and judicial activism has taken a lot of the teeth out of what the Founders intended.

    But since you seem to think so, Get a postin' this legislation and case law that you thinks "changed the manner in which it serves significantly".
    A perfect "case in point" is the federal income tax, another is universal suffrage, the welfare state is a third.

    If you don't think that any of those (you can Google the actual laws yourself, if you must) has fundamentally changed the nature of the nation the Founders established then I seriously question your ability to think rationally.

    They've all been end-runs around the proscription against a tyranny of the majority.

    Note, I'm not arguing that things have changed for the better, nor am I arguing that they've changed for the worse, but if you think John Adams, Gouveneur Morris, Edward Routledge, James Wilson, Philip Schuyler, and the other more "conservative" Founding Fathers would recognize our nation today as the nation that they helped found - if you don't think they'd look at what we have and say to themselves, "Wow, they've changed things significantly", you're wrong.

    Legislation changing the manner in which it serves significantly. Oy Vey! That is hilarious.
    Yeah, hilarious.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

Page 16 of 28 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •