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Thread: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

  1. #41
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Because anything you say...can and will be used against you.
    Not if what you say can be used to your benefit.
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    それは残念だよね?
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    I was just thinking the other day that, should I be charged with a crime, I will just plead the 5th rather than mounting a positive defense that ultimately proves my innocence and allows me to move on with my life.
    That is, unless I was guilty of the charges brought before me. THEN, I would plead the 5th.
    Like Oliver North, or Harriett Miers, or Josh Bolton?

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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    And, a liberal attorney that wrote a book on the subject.. But, you know more than him, right?
    A lot of people know more than Derp the Dersh. Nonetheless, legal experts disagree - that's why there are courts. Congress isn't a court.

    But you can start with this: If Lerner were hauled back up there and forced to answer questions (never mind she offered earlier, without immunity, but Issa was more interested in his dog & pony show)

    -- still, if they force her to answer questions: Can that compelled testimony be used against her?

  4. #44
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    http://oversight.house.gov/wp-conten...Memorandum.pdf

    Implicitly she waived her 5th amendment rights. The legal justification starts on page 9.
    The committee's legal reasoning does not explicitly determin if 2 U.S.C. 192 was violated. There is no indication if 2 U.S.C. 192 is only applicable when the defendent has already given testmony and answered questions...then refuses to answer further.

    There is no indication that 2 U.S.C. 192 can be used if the person claims the fifth before questioning begins. There is nothing in 2 U.S.C. 192 that states that if a witness makes an opening statement that invalidates her ability to exert her 5th amendment right.
    The committee gave no judicial ruling corroborating this claim.

    2 U.S. Code 192 - Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers | LII / Legal Information Institute
    Every person who having been summoned as a witness by the authority of either House of Congress to give testimony or to produce papers upon any matter under inquiry before either House, or any joint committee established by a joint or concurrent resolution of the two Houses of Congress, or any committee of either House of Congress, willfully makes default, or who, having appeared, refuses to answer any question pertinent to the question under inquiry, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000 nor less than $100 and imprisonment in a common jail for not less than one month nor more than twelve months.
    One very important fact of the use of U.S.C. 192...If Ms. Lerner would have not made an opening statement, and the committee claim that MS. Lerner were required by law[U.S.C. 192] to testify...then what sense does it make that they contend she waived her 5th amendment right? If she were bound by U.S.C. 192 to answer all questions regardless, then her waiving the 5th should be irrelevant.

    What U.S.C. 192 does not clairify is if Ms. Lerner's opening statement was a waiver to claiming the 5th.
    Last edited by 1750Texan; 04-16-14 at 07:17 PM.


  5. #45
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    The comittee's legal reasoning does not explicitly determin in 2 U.S.C. 192 was violated. There is no indication if 2 U.S.C. 192 is only applicable when the plantif has already given testmony and answered question...the refuses to answer further.

    There is no indication that 2 U.S.C. 192 can be used if the person claims the fifth before questioning begins. There is nothing in 2 U.S.C. 192 that states that if a witness makes an opening statement that invalidates her ability to exert her 5th amendment right.
    The committee gave no judicial ruling corroborating this claim.

    2 U.S. Code 192 - Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers | LII / Legal Information Institute


    One very important fact of the use of U.S.C. 192...If Ms. Lerner would have not made an opening statement, and the committee claim that MS. Lerner were required by law[U.S.C. 192] to testify...then what sence does it make that they contend she waived her 5th amendment right?

    If she were bound by U.S.C. 192 to answer all regardless, then her waiving the 5th should be irrelevant.

    What U.S.C. 192 does not clairify is if Ms. Lerner's opening statement was a waiver to claiming the 5th.

    I might add, Lerner was asked by Issa if she would like to make an opening statement.

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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    go out and stop the woman and man in the street and ask if they know who Lois Lerner is. The answer to that is the answer to the question as to if this will hurt President Obama.
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  7. #47
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    I might add, Lerner was asked by Issa if she would like to make an opening statement.
    Under the SC ruling of 192...Issa should have denied her right to plead the 5th and not released her...Furthermore Issa should have commenced the questioning and allow Lerner to object to the questions using the 5th...thus placing Lerner in violation of 192.

    By releasing Lerner and not asking questions, she is not in violation of 192 according to the SC rulings.


  8. #48
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    The committee's legal reasoning does not explicitly determin if 2 U.S.C. 192 was violated.
    It's not required to explicitly determine 2 U.S.C 192. The House is not a judicial entity. All they need is an implicit indication. Their legal council were apparently part of the discussion. If this goes before a judge, they may have more legal ramifications but this is the House of Reps. They do cite Bart and Quinn rulings which provide foundation for their determination.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    One very important fact of the use of U.S.C. 192...If Ms. Lerner would have not made an opening statement, and the committee claim that MS. Lerner were required by law[U.S.C. 192] to testify...then what sense does it make that they contend she waived her 5th amendment right? If she were bound by U.S.C. 192 to answer all questions regardless, then her waiving the 5th should be irrelevant.

    What U.S.C. 192 does not clairify is if Ms. Lerner's opening statement was a waiver to claiming the 5th.
    "IF" Lerner didn't make an opening statement and make denials as part of that opening statement, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Nothing in U.S.C. 192 undermines the implicit waiver of the 5th given.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    I might add, Lerner was asked by Issa if she would like to make an opening statement.
    Can you source that please?

  10. #50
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    Re: BREAKING: New Emails Show Lois Lerner Was in Contact With DOJ......

    Quote Originally Posted by keymanjim View Post
    Not if what you say can be used to your benefit.
    Nothing you say will be used to your benefit.


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