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Thread: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

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    Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    According to this court case 'Halbig vs. Sebelius' in front of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, the subsidies being provided are meant only for the states that set up their own insurance exchanges, not for the ones that don't. If it gets overturned it could eventually wind up being the decision of the Supreme Court. It would essentially almost sink Obamacare.


    The ACA states that states can establish or operate the exchanges, or the federal government will step in to do so.

    So far, 16 states and the District of Columbia have elected to set up their own exchanges, while 34 states rely on federally run exchanges.

    The conflict at the center of the Halbig case (and three other challenges across the country) has to do with tax subsidies granted to those who seek to obtain insurance from the exchanges. The ACA grants the credits to qualifying individuals in order to defray the cost of the insurance. Millions of Americans are expected to take advantage of the subsidies.

    But challengers to the law dispute who is eligible for the tax credits.

    On one side, the IRS interprets the law as authorizing the agency to grant tax credits to individuals using either the state or federal exchanges. On the other side are challengers to the law who question that interpretation.

    The challengers say that while the text of the law allows the subsidies for the state-run exchanges, there is nothing in the law that says the subsidies should be available for the federal exchanges.

    Michael A. Carvin, a lawyer for the challengers, argued in court briefs that the IRS is wrong in its interpretation of the law and the agency purports to "dispense billions of dollars in federal spending that Congress never authorized."

    As of March 7, 2.6 million people have selected a federal exchange and 85% of them have selected a plan with financial assistance, according to U.S. Health and Human Services statistics.

    If this panel of judges rules against the law in this case, the government could ask that a larger panel of judges on the same court hear the case. But supporters are concerned that one of the challenges, currently playing out in four different federal courts across the country, could one day end up, front and center, at the highest court in the land.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    .... If it gets overturned it could eventually wind up being the decision of the Supreme Court. It would essentially almost sink Obamacare.
    Now that would annoy Mr President.

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Now that would annoy Mr President.
    It won't happen real soon but it's a possibility, especially in this Appeals court with 2 out of the 3 judges being Bush President appointee's. If the Bill was worded improperly to allow Federal subsidies to states that don't accept the funds, it could be a serious problem.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    It won't happen real soon but it's a possibility, especially in this Appeals court with 2 out of the 3 judges being Bush President appointee's. If the Bill was worded improperly to allow Federal subsidies to states that don't accept the funds, it could be a serious problem.
    I think this may be a duplicate thread.

    I'll say what I did in the other. If 'intent' (which is the word the Admin is using to cover this issue) is permitted in this law, then it needs to be applied to all laws. Then there is going to be quite a interesting backlash....

    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    I think this may be a duplicate thread.

    I'll say what I did in the other. If 'intent' (which is the word the Admin is using to cover this issue) is permitted in this law, then it needs to be applied to all laws. Then there is going to be quite a interesting backlash....


    I always search for any other similar threads but sometimes they have different titles.

    They won't use this decision as a landmark to change "intent" for all other cases. They're saying the IRS is interpreting the intent incorrectly, that the subsidies were only meant for those states that set up insurance exchanges.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I always search for any other similar threads but sometimes they have different titles.

    They won't use this decision as a landmark to change "intent" for all other cases. They're saying the IRS is interpreting the intent incorrectly, that the subsidies were only meant for those states that set up insurance exchanges.
    I agree. The Admin is claiming the intent was for the subsidies to be offered regardless of who actually set up the exchanges.

    If, for whatever reason, the Admin should win this case, I believe there would be cause for the same use of 'intent' to be applied to other laws. Hence the backlash.....
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Heya Grip maybe you can get them to merge it with this one.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/obamac...obamacare.html

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    It won't happen real soon but it's a possibility, especially in this Appeals court with 2 out of the 3 judges being Bush President appointee's. If the Bill was worded improperly to allow Federal subsidies to states that don't accept the funds, it could be a serious problem.
    I suggest Mr. President is going to be well into his retirement before this sees SCOTUS

    There are some 1,200 pages of law involved and who knows how many arbitrary changes involved by now.

    That's what happens when you let inexperienced rock star politicians write law.
    ....."actually, throughout my life my two greatest assets have been my mental stability and being, like, really smart"

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Grip maybe you can get them to merge it with this one.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/obamac...obamacare.html
    That thread is terrible.... j/k




    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    I suggest Mr. President is going to be well into his retirement before this sees SCOTUS

    There are some 1,200 pages of law involved and who knows how many arbitrary changes involved by now.

    That's what happens when you let inexperienced rock star politicians write law.
    Not only can they tie it up endlessly, asking for a larger panel, then they can use other procedural foot dragging, but there are more Insurance companies opting in than out in the exchanges. If it becomes competitive, it will drive costs down making it more popular.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Little-Known Legal Challenge That Could Torpedo Obamacare

    Looks like a major mistake was made or an intentional penalty against individuals who had to go thru the federal exchanges.
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