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NYPD Ends Muslim Surveillance Program

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TheDemSocialist

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The New York City Police Department has ended a program that once kept tabs on the city's muslim population. (April 15)
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Video @: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBtHBQoDnvc

Well i say about goddamn time! This was a ridiculous program to begin with! Hell i would argue its against unreasonable search and seizure, but then again I believe a lot of things we do are! But hey at least it finally ended! I guess a step forward!?!?!?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBtHBQoDnvc

Well i say about goddamn time! This was a ridiculous program to begin with! Hell i would argue its against unreasonable search and seizure, but then again I believe a lot of things we do are! But hey at least it finally ended! I guess a step forward!?!?!?
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Since Bloomie and Kelly are gone, the fascist NYPD needs to stop their illegal and intrusive tactics.
 
Bloomberg is definitely an asshole.
 
Rush had a commercial on his show yesterday talking about now they keep a closer eye on Prespterians, you know, "our" grandmothers. So many things wrong with that...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBtHBQoDnvc

Well i say about goddamn time! This was a ridiculous program to begin with! Hell i would argue its against unreasonable search and seizure, but then again I believe a lot of things we do are! But hey at least it finally ended! I guess a step forward!?!?!?
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This is a welcome development. Surveillance should be focused on individuals who are suspected of posing a threat based on a degree of evidence. Blanket surveillance is inconsistent with risk-based surveillance.
 
donsutherland1 said:
This is a welcome development. Surveillance should be focused on individuals who are suspected of posing a threat based on a degree of evidence. Blanket surveillance is inconsistent with risk-based surveillance.
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Until the next Islamic extremist kills lots of people in NY. Then the people who supported this will be raked over the coals.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBtHBQoDnvc

Well i say about goddamn time! This was a ridiculous program to begin with! Hell i would argue its against unreasonable search and seizure, but then again I believe a lot of things we do are! But hey at least it finally ended! I guess a step forward!?!?!?
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But if Cuba does something like this...

This is amazing news! It's so AWESOME! Cuba is reforming and I just think (IMO) that this is amazing news! Socialism is the best! Great job, Cuba!!
 
Ockham said:
Until the next Islamic extremist kills lots of people in NY. Then the people who supported this will be raked over the coals.
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A focus on individuals who pose risks does not preclude monitoring extremist groups. Jihadist groups can and should be monitored.
 
donsutherland1 said:
A focus on individuals who pose risks does not preclude monitoring extremist groups. Jihadist groups can and should be monitored.
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Individuals who are extremist Muslims do not normally act alone or without assistance from a group. I agree that probable cause is needed but how does one get probable cause without either a tip or human assets with eyes watching these individuals or groups? I'm not sure NYC has the expertise for this anyway and I'd much rather the FBI insert moles into the hot bed areas instead of NYC doing this on their own - so maybe it's not such a bad thing they are disbanding.
 
Would you object to the FBI inserting a mole in an inner city church if a lot of local criminals went to church there at some point? I am not really trying to argue a point, I just want to think this through. On my first thought I think Islam should be treated EXACTLY like every other religion in the US. Why should it be different?
Ockham said:
Individuals who are extremist Muslims do not normally act alone or without assistance from a group. I agree that probable cause is needed but how does one get probable cause without either a tip or human assets with eyes watching these individuals or groups? I'm not sure NYC has the expertise for this anyway and I'd much rather the FBI insert moles into the hot bed areas instead of NYC doing this on their own - so maybe it's not such a bad thing they are disbanding.
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mak2 said:
Would you object to the FBI inserting a mole in an inner city church if a lot of local criminals went to church there at some point? I am not really trying to argue a point, I just want to think this through. On my first thought I think Islam should be treated EXACTLY like every other religion in the US. Why should it be different?
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If the inner city church has suspected members who have designs to cause terrorism, sure. If Catholics were blowing themselves up in highly populated areas I'd say the same thing about Catholics. :shrug:
 
Yea, when I try to think stuff like this through I often use the Catholic and Protestants from back in their terrorist days. Did we have FBI agents in the churchs back then looking for contributors to the IRA?
Ockham said:
If the inner city church has suspected members who have designs to cause terrorism, sure. If Catholics were blowing themselves up in highly populated areas I'd say the same thing about Catholics. :shrug:
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mak2 said:
Yea, when I try to think stuff like this through I often use the Catholic and Protestants from back in their terrorist days. Did we have FBI agents in the churchs back then looking for contributors to the IRA?
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To my knowledge the IRA's area of operations were in Northern Ireland against the British. I know of no reason why the FBI would have agents in churches in America when America wasn't being targeted. I'm sure we didn't have the FBI checking for Chechen separatists either until the Boston Bombing, their normal area of operation was Chechnya - just like the PKK's area of operation was southern Turkey / Northern Iraq.
 
IIRC it was pretty common knowledge bar owner and other buisness shipped lots of money back home to fund the IRA. But it doenst matter, i am just thinking about it. I still dont like idea of any leo's spying on churchs without a warrent or something. I think of Church like at home or something.
Ockham said:
To my knowledge the IRA's area of operations were in Northern Ireland against the British. I know of no reason why the FBI would have agents in churches in America when America wasn't being targeted. I'm sure we didn't have the FBI checking for Chechen separatists either until the Boston Bombing, their normal area of operation was Chechnya - just like the PKK's area of operation was southern Turkey / Northern Iraq.
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After thinking about it, I dont think LEO's should be allowed in any chuch no matter who's it is, muslim, satan worshippers whatever, without a search warrent.
CRUE CAB said:
The religion of peace.
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mak2 said:
After thinking about it, I dont think LEO's should be allowed in any chuch no matter who's it is, muslim, satan worshippers whatever, without a search warrent.
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I don't think they were sending cops in churches for just any reason. And many cops to to church on their own based on their beliefs.
 
I did not mean they couldnt go to their own church. I thought the program sent police officers to church undercover to keep an eye on them. nevermind, I cant keep up with the importatn stuff when work keeps interfering
CRUE CAB said:
I don't think they were sending cops in churches for just any reason. And many cops to to church on their own based on their beliefs.
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Ockham said:
Until the next Islamic extremist kills lots of people in NY. Then the people who supported this will be raked over the coals.
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How many Christian extremists killing people do we need before we start curtailing their rights?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBtHBQoDnvc

Well i say about goddamn time! This was a ridiculous program to begin with! Hell i would argue its against unreasonable search and seizure, but then again I believe a lot of things we do are! But hey at least it finally ended! I guess a step forward!?!?!?
Click to expand...

I like that it was a thing that needed to be shut down. The headline is absurdly dystopian.
 
Ockham said:
Individuals who are extremist Muslims do not normally act alone or without assistance from a group. I agree that probable cause is needed but how does one get probable cause without either a tip or human assets with eyes watching these individuals or groups? I'm not sure NYC has the expertise for this anyway and I'd much rather the FBI insert moles into the hot bed areas instead of NYC doing this on their own - so maybe it's not such a bad thing they are disbanding.
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Evidence leading to surveillance might include, but not be limited to:

1. Individuals already under surveillance on account of Intelligence leads attending on a regular services
2. Biographical information, rhetoric or writings of those leading services
3. Financial data that is reported to the IRS and other government agencies
4. Deliveries at unusual hours

Professional law enforcement and counterterrorism entities have many ways of collecting information prior to deciding whether to put a place or person under continuing surveillance.
 
Ockham said:
What rights were being curtailed?
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The right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant issued upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Maybe some of this language is familiar to you.
 
Paschendale said:
The right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant issued upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Maybe some of this language is familiar to you.
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Only to folks who give a rat's backside about freedom and abhor intrusive governments.
 
ecofarm said:
But if Cuba does something like this...

This is amazing news! It's so AWESOME! Cuba is reforming and I just think (IMO) that this is amazing news! Socialism is the best! Great job, Cuba!!
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When in the hell are you talking about?
 
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