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Thread: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob0627 View Post
    I agree but that doesn't justify committing torture or any other human rights
    atrocity. Torture ALWAYS involves committing an atrocity on an innocent person. Why? Because as an American, one espouses the common law ideology that a person is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a proper court. Those who don't agree with that basic American concept are not real Americans.
    The concept of "Presumption of Innocence" is not even codified in the text of our Constitution.

    The "innocent until proven guilty " concept comes from English Jurisprudence.

    Its not even a " American concept " in the sense that we got it from English common law.

    And Finally, your'e NOT innocent until proven guilty IF you did it. Your are guilty .

    TRUE innocence until proven guilty means you couldn't be, at your arraignment, be held until your trial.

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob0627 View Post
    Not really. But to placate you, to torture is to deliberately cause another person to suffer severely, either mentally,physically or both.



    Already clarified.
    So, sleep deprivation isn't torture?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    The topic is torturing suspected terrorists.
    No, the topic is torturing known terrorists. All terrorists are guilty, otherwise they wouldnt be terrorists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, the topic is torturing known terrorists. All terrorists are guilty, otherwise they wouldnt be terrorists.
    Many suspected terrorists held at Guantanamo have been released due to lack of evidence. There are even several who have been determined to not guilty who are still be held due to logistical issues.

    How many Jews tortured and killed by the Nazis were actually attempting to sabotage the German government or harm others? How many of those tortured and murdered as terrorists by the dictatorships in Argentina, El Salvador, Russia, China, Egypt and Iraq were actually engaged in terrorism?

    "When the United States sent Maher Arar to Syria, where he was tortured for months, the deportation order stated unequivocally that Mr. Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was a member of Al Qaeda. But a few days earlier, Canadian investigators had told the F.B.I. that they had not been able to link him to the terrorist group.

    That is one of the disclosures in the 1,200-page report released last week after a two-year Canadian investigation of Mr. Ararís case found him to be innocent of any terrorist ties. The report urges the Canadian government to formally protest the American treatment of Mr. Arar, a recommendation Canadian officials are considering.

    Mr. Arar, 37, who now lives in British Columbia, has a lawsuit against United States officials and agencies that is on appeal, and he has demanded an explanation for his treatment from the Bush administration.

    A close reading of the Arar Commission report offers a rare window on American actions in the case, describing seemingly flimsy evidence behind the American decision in 2002 to send Mr. Arar to a country notorious for torture; a deliberate attempt by American officials to deceive Canada about where Mr. Arar was; and lingering confusion among top American officials about the two countriesí roles in the case......"
    By SCOTT SHANE
    Published: September 25, 2006

    "Tortured Man Gets Apology From Canada
    By Doug Struck
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, January 27, 2007

    MONTREAL, Jan. 26 -- The prime minister of Canada apologized Friday to Maher Arar and agreed to give $9 million in compensation to the Canadian Arab, who was spirited by U.S. agents to Syria and tortured there after being falsely named as a terrorism suspect.

    Arar, 36, a former computer engineer who was detained while changing planes at a New York airport in 2002 and imprisoned in a Syrian dungeon for 10 months, said after the announcement that he "feels proud as a Canadian."

    "We cannot go back and fix the injustice that occurred to Mr. Arar," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in issuing the formal apology in Ottawa. "However, we can make changes to lessen the likelihood that something like this will ever happen again." The head of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police resigned over the affair, and the government has pledged to increase oversight of its intelligence agencies...."
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 04-13-14 at 07:17 PM.

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    All of that is referring to different circumstances. I'll repeat for those who missed it:

    For verifiable information.

    And, please, spare us the Mother Jones articles.
    Quoting a senate report isnt good enough for you?


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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: [/FONT][/COLOR]CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Criminals. Thats what they are, plain and simple. The CIA is filled of many criminals. War criminals. Torture. Lying to the American public, hell even to themselves.
    I suggest you should wait until all the evidence comes out. You may be surprised and you'll run less risk of having to eat your words. A government at war fails in its duty if it does not do everything possible to prevail.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Many suspected terrorists held at Guantanamo have been released due to lack of evidence. There are even several who have been determined to not guilty who are still be held due to logistical issues.

    How many Jews tortured and killed by the Nazis were actually attempting to sabotage the German government or harm others? How many of those tortured and murdered as terrorists by the dictatorships in Argentina, El Salvador, Russia, China, Egypt and Iraq were actually engaged in terrorism?

    "When the United States sent Maher Arar to Syria, where he was tortured for months, the deportation order stated unequivocally that Mr. Arar, a Canadian software engineer, was a member of Al Qaeda. But a few days earlier, Canadian investigators had told the F.B.I. that they had not been able to link him to the terrorist group.

    That is one of the disclosures in the 1,200-page report released last week after a two-year Canadian investigation of Mr. Arar’s case found him to be innocent of any terrorist ties. The report urges the Canadian government to formally protest the American treatment of Mr. Arar, a recommendation Canadian officials are considering.

    Mr. Arar, 37, who now lives in British Columbia, has a lawsuit against United States officials and agencies that is on appeal, and he has demanded an explanation for his treatment from the Bush administration.

    A close reading of the Arar Commission report offers a rare window on American actions in the case, describing seemingly flimsy evidence behind the American decision in 2002 to send Mr. Arar to a country notorious for torture; a deliberate attempt by American officials to deceive Canada about where Mr. Arar was; and lingering confusion among top American officials about the two countries’ roles in the case......"
    By SCOTT SHANE
    Published: September 25, 2006

    "Tortured Man Gets Apology From Canada
    By Doug Struck
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, January 27, 2007

    MONTREAL, Jan. 26 -- The prime minister of Canada apologized Friday to Maher Arar and agreed to give $9 million in compensation to the Canadian Arab, who was spirited by U.S. agents to Syria and tortured there after being falsely named as a terrorism suspect.

    Arar, 36, a former computer engineer who was detained while changing planes at a New York airport in 2002 and imprisoned in a Syrian dungeon for 10 months, said after the announcement that he "feels proud as a Canadian."

    "We cannot go back and fix the injustice that occurred to Mr. Arar," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in issuing the formal apology in Ottawa. "However, we can make changes to lessen the likelihood that something like this will ever happen again." The head of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police resigned over the affair, and the government has pledged to increase oversight of its intelligence agencies...."
    Most of them have re-joined the ranks of the terrorists, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I suggest you should wait until all the evidence comes out. You may be surprised and you'll run less risk of having to eat your words. A government at war fails in its duty if it does not do everything possible to prevail.
    A government that isn't based on humane principals or doesn't adhere to them consistently isn't worth defending.

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    A government that isn't based on humane principals or doesn't adhere to them consistently isn't worth defending.
    Rubbish. Imagine the surrender ceremony during which the losing signatory consoles his countrymen by assuring them that their government adhered to its principles (note spelling). Rubbish.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: CIA's 'Harsh Interrogations' Exceeded Legal Authority, Report Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I suggest you should wait until all the evidence comes out. You may be surprised and you'll run less risk of having to eat your words. A government at war fails in its duty if it does not do everything possible to prevail.
    Seems pretty cut and dry to me. We tortured, broke our own law, broke our own rules, and broke international law. Seems pretty clear.


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