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Thread: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    There are millions of reasons that someone isn't paid as much as someone else.

    it is up to the business to determine that not the government. if someone feels slighted that they aren't making enough then they need to talk to their boss or HR.
    also this bill violates contracts signed by employee's which it cannot do.

    almost all business have you sign nondisclosure agreements on salary. this bill cannot violate those agreements or invalidate them.

    this bill had nothing to do with equal pay non-sense and everything to do with a political ploy.
    there are already anti-pay discrimination laws on the books there is no need for more.

    it is no one's business what i make in a year. if you want pay ranges you can look on any number of sites to find out what the pay for a position should be.

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well generally there are reasons for individuals to make more than others. When the information is aggregated you generally smooth out those individual differences and patterns start to emerge.

    For example...if I found out that I and my co-workers make the in the bottom 10% of wages for our job then it's an indication that our employer doesn't pay well. Therefore...we start looking for something closer to the market value for our labor. Either our employer hires wages to prevent turnover or he just ends up cycling through employers at a high cost. Welcome to labor markets. What's interesting is that conservative seem to be so against the idea of equal information. Why exactly shouldn't employees have access to information on pay? Maybe not even individual information but aggregated information?
    Employees shouldn't have access to their co-workers compensation. It's bad for morale when you have people getting bent out of shape because Suzie gets paid more than they do. As an employer, there are considerations about pay that are highly personal and in some cases highly unethical to reveal. Paying Linda less than Moe because Linda can't read isn't something that Linda wants everyone to know about. Exposing part of the picture without showing all of it is a BAD idea.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    He is responsible for the withholding system that is the backbone of the income tax system as it is currently.
    Sure...in order to raise money for WWII. It's not like he was a lifelong supporter of it. I guess he's guilty as charged of living in reality rather than some made up Libertarian world.

    Doesn't much matter, the fact is he supported the fed and supported massive amounts of faux currency flooding the market by increasing the supply of money daily at a rate of 3-5%.
    Actually he said that inflation should equal the real-growth of the economy. That's not flooding the market that's currency meeting the demand of the economy. Despite what goldbugs think you can't have a currency that constantly grows in value as economic activity increases. It leads to deflation and hoarding.
    Creating monopolies requires government intervention
    No it doesn't.....Standard Oil grew because of innovation and doing better than their competitors. Once they got big enough they used their market power to keep competitors out of the market. When it comes to things like restaurants or business that have low barriers to entry you'll never see a monopoly.

    When it comes to a business that is costly to start then the company with a large market share can use it's size to dump and undercut competitors and put them out of the business. Then then have long periods of time of monopoly power because it's both timely and costly to enter the market. Then of course they dump and use predatory pricing to put then new challenger out of business. Eventually no one else will want to raise the high amount of money required to try and challenge the monopoly.

    What information is shared is up to the parties themselves, not government. If that information is helpful or not isn't all that important to me.
    Well gee.....anyone that has more information has every incentive to hold back information that results in them having an economic gain. That's a great idea.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Employees shouldn't have access to their co-workers compensation. It's bad for morale when you have people getting bent out of shape because Suzie gets paid more than they do. As an employer, there are considerations about pay that are highly personal and in some cases highly unethical to reveal. Paying Linda less than Moe because Linda can't read isn't something that Linda wants everyone to know about. Exposing part of the picture without showing all of it is a BAD idea.
    Which is why as I mentioned the information should be aggregated.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    It isn't. It's a bad thing to make individuals' salaries public.
    Why? If you provide aggregated information how is it a bad thing?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Which is why as I mentioned the information should be aggregated.
    It still leaves people with flawed impressions. I make $75K a year and my dept. average is $90K that tells me nothing since there's one guy who makes $175K because he can write any program you throw at him in less than a day. I'm actually the #2 on the pay scale, but because I'm looking at an average, suddenly I'm pissed that I'm making less than average. Go to median and I can show similar cases where a false impression can be created.

    At the end of the day, it's the employee and the employer who need to know what the employee is making and no one else. If you think that you're being discriminated against, take them to court and prove it using Title VII to back yourself up.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    given it was a pure party line vote its most likely designed to create money or advantages for DNC allies and designed to hurt GOP allies
    that seems to be pretty much business as usual in American politics...

    no bill is titled accurately and no bill ever does what it says it does; from this perspective there is nothing "affordable" as a nation or an individual in the "Affordable Care Act" and nothing patriotic about the Patriot Act.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    When I learned about asymmetric information, it pertained to the details of a transaction between two parties. For instance, hiding the terms of employment from the employee or a potential insurance recipient forgoing information on their more dangerous hobbies when signing up for coverage. Non-relevant information is (or at least was) not considered an aspect of asymmetrical information.
    How is pay information non-relevant in the labor market? How would an employee even know the market rate and where they are in relation to the market rate unless they have that information.


    Here's a paper that talks about information asymmetry and how it creates frictions in labor markets
    http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/vero...et_version.pdf
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...in order to raise money for WWII. It's not like he was a lifelong supporter of it. I guess he's guilty as charged of living in reality rather than some made up Libertarian world.
    Yes, in order to use a more effective means of taking peoples income than doing it all on April 15. What better way than to force employers into labor and take peoples income all year long. Not only is it more effective, but it also allows you to take more than you otherwise could.

    Actually he said that inflation should equal the real-growth of the economy. That's not flooding the market that's currency meeting the demand of the economy. Despite what goldbugs think you can't have a currency that constantly grows in value as economic activity increases. It leads to deflation and hoarding.
    Nonsense. Even if the prices of consumer goods are expected to fall, people will still consume goods, and in order to do so, business will need to spend in the present on investment to ensure the flow of consumer goods into the future. If we consider that many markets such as the computer market live in a deflationary environment and yet are still able to sell their goods to consumers for profit it becomes clear there is no concerns of depressions or hoarding of any sort from deflation. All that occurs is goods are cheaper and people are richer for it.

    Btw, this is what he said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Milton Friedman
    My choice at the moment would be a legislated rule instructing the monetary authority to achieve a specified rate of growth in the stock of money. I would specify that the Reserve System shall see to it that the total stock of money so defined rises month by month, and indeed, so far as possible, day by day, at an annual rate of X%, where X is some number between 3 and 5.
    No it doesn't.....Standard Oil grew because of innovation and doing better than their competitors. Once they got big enough they used their market power to keep competitors out of the market. When it comes to things like restaurants or business that have low barriers to entry you'll never see a monopoly.
    Standard Oil grew because of government assistance. On the point of oil however, the only reason oil is still marketable is because of government subsidy. Otherwise, the price would be too high for the market to handle and the oil companies would run out of business.

    When it comes to a business that is costly to start then the company with a large market share can use it's size to dump and undercut competitors and put them out of the business. Then then have long periods of time of monopoly power because it's both timely and costly to enter the market. Then of course they dump and use predatory pricing to put then new challenger out of business. Eventually no one else will want to raise the high amount of money required to try and challenge the monopoly.
    They would need to grow to a certain size to be able to use predatory pricing, which in a free market would not be possible.

    Well gee.....anyone that has more information has every incentive to hold back information that results in them having an economic gain. That's a great idea.
    It is up to individuals in question what information they will share. I'm sorry that I don't support forced labor like you, but yeah, I don't.
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-09-14 at 05:09 PM.

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    Re: Senate Republicans Block Paycheck Fairness Act For Third Time

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    It still leaves people with flawed impressions. I make $75K a year and my dept. average is $90K that tells me nothing since there's one guy who makes $175K because he can write any program you throw at him in less than a day. I'm actually the #2 on the pay scale, but because I'm looking at an average, suddenly I'm pissed that I'm making less than average. Go to median and I can show similar cases where a false impression can be created.

    At the end of the day, it's the employee and the employer who need to know what the employee is making and no one else. If you think that you're being discriminated against, take them to court and prove it using Title VII to back yourself up.
    Once again you're talking about just a few data points. What if you found your 75k a year was equal to the bottom 5% out of 700k programmers? What happens if you found you were in the top 5%? Either way that information is useful to you in making employment decisions. Ultimately you would have to decide how to react to the information. This bill just provides transparency.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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