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Thread: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    There is a difference in not allowing a pregancy to happen and killing an existing pregnancy. if you don't know the difference then i can't help you.
    plan b kills an existing pregnancy. typical birth control doesn't kill existing pregnancies it simply doesn't allow them to happen.

    I take it you didn't read the link to how oral contraceptives work. They prevent ovulation, they prevent fertilization, and they prevent implantation.

    Now, take Plan-B, it functions by preventing ovulation, preventing fertilization, and preventing implantation.



    #1 So functionally how are they different?


    #2 The FDA information specifically says that Plan-B does not terminate existing pregnancies. (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa.../021998lbl.pdf)


    #3 If it is the implantation issue, then why does Hobby Lobby provide low dose oral contraceptives that can prevent implantation?




    >>>>

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I'm sorry, did you not post the following:



    The FDA information I linked to specifically says Plan-B does not function to terminate a pregnancy.

    I mean you were wrong, you should man up and admit it.



    >>>>
    When I'm a man, I'll man up. I'm a woman.

    I posted what they are arguing about. It isn't my opinion, it's theirs. So I'm not "wrong" about it. I'm neither their attorney, nor their employee. You asked what they're objecting to, and I posted it for you. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Kindly stop asking me to defend the Hobby Lobby case. We aren't litigating it on this board.

  3. #83
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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrecess View Post
    First, capital letters and punctuation are usually deemed necessary if you want to have a reasoned debate.

    Second, I fail to see the point of your entire post, except wasting my time trying to decipher this gibberish:
    sorry, their is no proper English on forums, if you looking for it ,forget it.

    i dont post is para's , not every one has the same size screen.

    i post in line form, where it is easier to read, if you dont like it, then your free to skip over my post and rebuttal someone else.

    your little rant, is noting more of a attempt to make yourself feel better, instead of sticking to the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrecess View Post
    Thirdly, rights are always weighed in contrast to others. My right to speak is weighed against the harm certain types of speech may inflict on your reputation (although in this case, you've done a pretty good job of shattering that yourself, no help needed). And exactly what right do you have here to say that businesses should not be held accountable for the wages and benefits (or the lack thereof) they provide to their employees? And so help me God, if you cite the 9th and 10th Amendments, I will personally tattoo those words on your forehead so the next time you argue against abortion rights, you can read them time and again.
    rights are not weighted, my rights are vast, and they only end when they meet yours.

    what do you mean accountable?....what is that supposed to mean?......a business owner has right to property, and association, right to his beliefs, when i hire you i offer you a wage, and sometimes benefits, you either accept or reject them, you dont get to change them.

    your silly little rant is sicking, and it shows you have not reached maturity, because you debate on emotional contend, which is always a losing position.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrecess View Post
    Fourth,. Enough said.
    yes it is enough said, from your emotional rants.

    so if you can act mature when speaking to me...dont engage me!
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-02-14 at 05:18 PM.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I take it you didn't read the link to how oral contraceptives work. They prevent ovulation, they prevent fertilization, and they prevent implantation.

    Now, take Plan-B, it functions by preventing ovulation, preventing fertilization, and preventing implantation.



    #1 So functionally how are they different?


    #2 The FDA information specifically says that Plan-B does not terminate existing pregnancies. (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa.../021998lbl.pdf)


    #3 If it is the implantation issue, then why does Hobby Lobby provide low dose oral contraceptives that can prevent implantation?




    >>>>
    again you don't seem to understand the difference between preventing a pregancy before it happens (IE sperm meets egg) and aborting an existing pregnancy (after sperm meets egg).

    i am not going to get into a tit for tat. there is nothing wrong with their stance. it is in perfect alignment for their religious beliefs and forcing them to supply something that violates that is against the constitution.

    whether you agree with their view or not doesn't matter. the constitution does, and when talking about law that is the only thing that matters.

    as for the OP of the topic. the fact remains that it isn't the company that invests it is the employee's that do. i am sure that you have investments that would go against your belief systems. more so if you are invested in mutual funds. does that make you a hypocrite? no. the point of investing is to make more money.

    now if you don't believe in making more money or don't think other people should and still invest then yes you are a hypocrite.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    Exactly why should they have done that?

    I mean I get that this is a political forum and there are bound to be plenty of partisan hacks on this website but the idea that they've done something wrong because they didn't know their employees 401(k)s contained mutual funds that contained companies who make whatever it is they disagree with is foolish.
    Why I agree with you, Sir. This whole thing on it's OK for Hobby Lobby to invest in companies that makes profit in birth control and not seeing anything wrong with that, but that same company (Hobby Lobby) turns around and does a double-take and all of a sudden says that they (Hobby Lobby) are not going to pay for contraceptives that they helped invest in is one h*** of a contradiction that's quite noticeable.

    It's like having your cake and eating it too. I guess the best way to describe this is integrity; it does say a lot about a person or a company.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Why I agree with you, Sir. This whole thing on it's OK for Hobby Lobby to invest in companies that makes profit in birth control and not seeing anything wrong with that, but that same company (Hobby Lobby) turns around and does a double-take and all of a sudden says that they (Hobby Lobby) are not going to pay for contraceptives that they helped invest in is one h*** of a contradiction that's quite noticeable.

    It's like having your cake and eating it too. I guess the best way to describe this is integrity; it does say a lot about a person or a company.
    again hobby lobby doesn't invest in anything.

    employee's are offered a wide variety of mutual funds to invest in. a single mutual fund may have 10 or 20 companies in which it invests in or buys stock.
    i don't even know all the companies in my mutual funds. i don't care. all i care about is how much return they bring in at the end of the year.

    the employee is the one that invests in the mutual fund. the company might match but it is the employee that buys it.

    there are only 4 contraceptives that they disapprove of because they consider it an abortion if taken.
    the provide other basic forms of BC.

    what it says is that people don't understand the topic and are just making stuff up.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    Stop with the fake outrage.

    In all likelihood Hobby Lobby had no idea their employees 401(k)s invested in mutual funds that invested in companies that make emergency contraceptives. I have no idea what companies make emergency contraceptives myself.
    SO your defense is HL's ignorance

    Not sure if that's a legally valid defense, but it sure is a credible one
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Do you understand what mutual funds are, and how they work? I'm guessing that you do not.
    There are mutual funds run according to "christian" principles such as

    Timothy Plan® | Biblically Responsible Investing
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    When I'm a man, I'll man up. I'm a woman.

    I posted what they are arguing about. It isn't my opinion, it's theirs. So I'm not "wrong" about it. I'm neither their attorney, nor their employee. You asked what they're objecting to, and I posted it for you. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Kindly stop asking me to defend the Hobby Lobby case. We aren't litigating it on this board.

    I'm not asking you do defend their case, I'm asking you to support your claim that "The ACA requires that insurance include 20 specific forms of contraception. 4 of them contain FDA warnings that they may cause a formed fetus to abort."


    The FDA information specifically says it does not a pregnancy to end. I link to the FDA information that said specifically that and you tried to hide behind "contraindications" because women who are pregnant shouldn't be taking hormones when their hormones are already in-flux. Low does, pre-sex monthly oral contraceptives have the exact same contraindicator (also shown with an FDA link).


    >>>>

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Has the SCOTUS ruled on any of the 99%ers protests? If they have, I'll bet it was in favor of business and not the rights of the individual.
    I dont think the Supremes have ruled on this case either. Sotomayor DID offer this gem though...

    "No, I don’t think that that’s the same thing, Mr. Clement. There’s one penalty that is if the employer continues to provide health insurance without this part of the coverage, but Hobby Lobby would choose not to provide health insurance at all. And in that case Hobby Lobby would pay $2,000 per employee, which is less than Hobby Lobby probably pays to provide insurance to its employees. So there is a choice here. It’s not even a penalty by – in the language of the statute. It’s a payment or a tax. There’s a choice."

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