Page 6 of 20 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 192

Thread: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

  1. #51
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,262

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    As does the BC pill for some women... you are nit picking ONE form of BC in a CON attempt to claim concern for women's health...

    You can suspect anything you wish, you seem unable to prove much though. What insurance does Hobby Lobby offer?

    Now to get back to the facts... Hobby Lobby is suing the Government to avoid obeying the law. I don't see the heartfelt religious objection near as much as not wishing to provide comprehensive heath care insurance.
    And the Left is nitpicking as well, since HL is complying with most of the law by offering contraceptives, just not all of them. It's all or nothing with you people, and most for making poltical hay against religious people. IUD's are primarily recommended for those in long term relationships that don't intend to have children, because sometimes fertility is affected; why, because of high risk.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  2. #52
    Sage



    Join Date
    May 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,209

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    The premise of this thread may well be the most ridiculous overreach I have seen on this site (note that I don't frequent the conspiracy forum).

    29 CFR 2550.404c-5 covers the requirements for funds a 401(k) can be invested in. While the reg doesn't specify particular financial instruments it does require 'pooled funds' and also requires diversified investment managed in such a way as to minimize risk. It would be INCREDIBLY difficult for a fund manager to fulfill the obligations of this regulation without investing in certain instruments that are, in turn, invested in some form of medical research or manufacturing.

    For these reasons it behooves an employer to hire a management firm to handle their 401(k). The employer will generally not interfere with the fund manager because to do so might create a violation of the aforementioned regulation.

    Furthermore, the employer is not allowed to direct the employee's investment choices but is (if they provide matching funds) required to meet their contribution requirements as defined by the written agreement. If the employee opts for a fund that is partially invested in medical and pharmaceutical businesses (as many funds are) then they have no choice but to match those contributions.

    Finally, when the employer (or you) buy the stock of a pharmaceutical corporation you ARE NOT making a cash payment to that corporation. All you are doing is purchasing the right to a certain percentage of the equity in that corporation. In some cases you might have voting rights but that's about it.
    Incredibly difficult?

    Was adhering to your faith supposed to be easy?

    If they believe offering insurance that supplies birth control that the adherent will not use is so offensive, then surely investing in companies that do not conform is at least as bad -possibly worse, if those companies make abortion pills.

  3. #53
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:46 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    30,578

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The court wasn't asked to rule on the structure or the standards in the law. But whats wrong with having standards in health care?
    Depends on the standards. I have no problem in possibly setting coverage caps. for deductable's and out of pockets. telling a single guy or a 60 year old women that they have to buy prenatal and maternity care though no i don't agree with.

    I also don't agree with telling people they can't spend the HSA accounts on valid medical purchases just because you don't think they are valid.

    Did the court rule that it was unconstitutional?
    Depends on what you view it as. The court ruled it unconstitutional under the commerce clause. meaning the government can't force you to buy products or services you don't want.

    This was a huge stretch they ruled it constitutional under tax law even though the obama administration maintained it wasn't a tax but a penalty. a penalty would have been unconstitutional, but roberts screwed up and said it was a tax. that was the only way this bill or at least the mandate passed.

    Did the court rule that the government didn't have the authority?
    This has never been argued in front of the court so there is no ruling. we have anti-slavery laws though in which that is what mandatory servitude is.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    this isn't a hypocrisy. it is the employee's that are investing in the funds. the funds cover a huge wide variety of sectors in order to spread the risk yet maintain a profitable margin for the investor.

    i am sure that there are people here that have invested in companies that they would ideologically oppose does that make them hypocrites? no.

    investing based on ideology is about as bad as investing on emotion. it is stupid. i don't invest for those reason i invest to make more money.

  4. #54
    Guru
    1750Texan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Southcental Texas
    Last Seen
    10-14-17 @ 02:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,569

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    Stop with the fake outrage.

    In all likelihood Hobby Lobby had no idea their employees 401(k)s invested in mutual funds that invested in companies that make emergency contraceptives. I have no idea what companies make emergency contraceptives myself.
    That is exactly right. Just as there is no way for HL to know if their premuims payed to their carrier is pooled and covers the carrier's insured with the very contraceptions they oppose...other than common sense.

    Highly unlikely a corporation like HL has the capability to do due diliagance in their scrutinizing investments.


  5. #55
    Sage
    Lutherf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,640

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Another CON game, yes too bad you didn't think about this a bit more.

    Hobby Lobby is attempting to get out of providing Health Care Insurance because a tiny fraction of what they pay MAY go to Birth Control which they claim soo violates their PERSONAL religious tenants they would rather face fines and court costs rather than abide by the law. They howsomever are FAR less concerned about supporting Big Pharma who makes the BC drugs through the 401(K) plans THEY provide to their employees. They can easily avoid the 401(K) issue by using a Faith Based Fund manager.

    For both you and Hobby Lobby the phrase is- "render unto Caesar's what is Caesars", both of you have complete discretion in what retirement plans you can use to avoid the religious turmoil you claim to suffer by the fact PPH receives federal funding.

    It rings a bit hollow that Hobby Lobby is so willing to face fines and court costs over so tiny amount of BC coverage- a slightly jaded man might opine they see it as avoiding providing health coverage all together thus making it more justifiable to face fines and court costs- but so inattentive on the 401(k) issue.
    You don't even know what the case is about, do you?

    They aren't trying to get out of providing insurance and their existing plan does provide for birth control.

    This case is about covering IUD's and abortificant drugs.

  6. #56
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    11-18-15 @ 01:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    440

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Seeing that Hobby Lobby is pretty strict with their business and their religion--meaning they go hand in hand--they should have looked in to those mutual funds just like they looked in to their health care doings--with the same tenacity.
    Exactly why should they have done that?

    I mean I get that this is a political forum and there are bound to be plenty of partisan hacks on this website but the idea that they've done something wrong because they didn't know their employees 401(k)s contained mutual funds that contained companies who make whatever it is they disagree with is foolish.

  7. #57
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,034

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Please provide a link to the FDA which show such a warning. When verifying this statement all I could find was:

    5.2
    Existing Pregnancy Plan B One-Step is not effective in terminating an existing pregnancy.

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa.../021998lbl.pdf


    From the FDA.



    >>>>
    4. CONTRAINDICATIONS
    Plan B One-Step is contraindicated for use in the case of known or suspected pregnancy.


    Definition of contraindication: The presence of a factor or condition that would preclude an intervention, and which, if performed, could cause harm to the patient and be regarded as a negligent act.

    If a fetus has formed, and the mother takes Plan B, it has the potential to abort the fetus.

    This is what HL objects to.

  8. #58
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,034

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I see it as a stalking horse... using 4 forms to deny them all... the law doesn't allow the employer to decide which forms of MEDICALLY approved treatments the employer will 'pay for'. I figure Hobby Lobby is trying to stick it's camel's nose into our tent.

    it is a bit of a false doctrine to claim Hobby Lobby can get out paying for abortive BC methods as the money pools in a collective bin for ALL insured members at the Insurance Company. Thus Hobby Lobby may demand their employees not get one of the dreaded 4 but Hobby Lobby's money in the pool sure can be used to fund a different company's employees.

    Then again an employee can take Hobby Lobby money and buy one of the dreaded 4 so once again Hobby Lobby money can be paying for a 'bad' drug.

    As best it is a face saving stunt by Hobby Lobby, at worst the start of eroding ACA coverage...
    The problem is the SCOTUS isn't going to rule based on what they "might" or "may" do, nor is HL suggesting that all of their employees consult with the company before spending their salaries to ensure that HL approves of the purchase.

    HL isn't trying to stick its nose in my tent. I don't work for them. Do you?

  9. #59
    Guru
    WorldWatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,041

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    4. CONTRAINDICATIONS
    Plan B One-Step is contraindicated for use in the case of known or suspected pregnancy.


    Definition of contraindication: The presence of a factor or condition that would preclude an intervention, and which, if performed, could cause harm to the patient and be regarded as a negligent act.

    If a fetus has formed, and the mother takes Plan B, it has the potential to abort the fetus.

    This is what HL objects to.


    Contraindications don't mean that it will cause an abortion. The idea that you would greatly screw with the hormone levels of a female whose hormone levels are in flux (due to pregnancy) makes sense. It doesn't mean that it will cause an abortion as the VERY NEXT sentence indicates.

    You indicated that the FDA labels says it will cause an abortion and what you quoted isn't it. As a matter of fact it specifically says it does not cause the termination of an existing pregnancy.



    >>>>

  10. #60
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,034

    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Contraindications don't mean that it will cause an abortion. The idea that you would greatly screw with the hormone levels of a female whose hormone levels are in flux (due to pregnancy) makes sense. It doesn't mean that it will cause an abortion as the VERY NEXT sentence indicates.

    You indicated that the FDA labels says it will cause an abortion and what you quoted isn't it. As a matter of fact it specifically says it does not cause the termination of an existing pregnancy.



    >>>>
    I posted what is on the FDA label, and the definition of contraindication. Why did you ask me if you're now claiming you already knew it was there?

    The contraindication warning is so that women who are pregnant know the pill may cause a formed fetus to abort.

    If you have an objection to what the FDA says, you need to get in touch with them. I'm not with the FDA, sorry.

Page 6 of 20 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •