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Thread: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Let's think about this for a minute. You are contending that Hobby Lobby should be aware of what funds the 401(k) offers and, based on their principles, opt out of those funds or else they're hypocrites. Hmm..... Every April I send the IRS a check that goes to fund a whole bunch of crap I would like to opt out of so am I also a hypocrite for funding Planned Parenthood through my taxes? Should I be eligible to make a discretionary adjustment to my tax payment to avoid funding an organization I dislike?
    Another CON game, yes too bad you didn't think about this a bit more.

    Hobby Lobby is attempting to get out of providing Health Care Insurance because a tiny fraction of what they pay MAY go to Birth Control which they claim soo violates their PERSONAL religious tenants they would rather face fines and court costs rather than abide by the law. They howsomever are FAR less concerned about supporting Big Pharma who makes the BC drugs through the 401(K) plans THEY provide to their employees. They can easily avoid the 401(K) issue by using a Faith Based Fund manager.

    For both you and Hobby Lobby the phrase is- "render unto Caesar's what is Caesars", both of you have complete discretion in what retirement plans you can use to avoid the religious turmoil you claim to suffer by the fact PPH receives federal funding.

    It rings a bit hollow that Hobby Lobby is so willing to face fines and court costs over so tiny amount of BC coverage- a slightly jaded man might opine they see it as avoiding providing health coverage all together thus making it more justifiable to face fines and court costs- but so inattentive on the 401(k) issue.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Boy are you a scared little bunny, worried to death about what one company does. Most people would say it's none of YOUR ****ing business what they offer their employees. And btw, did you know that IUD's have risks? Don't you care about women's health?
    And you seem to be a lot like an angry little bunny.

    As long as a company obeys the law I'm fine with Hobby Lobby offering 401(K) plans that support BC. Like minimum wage there are some things a company is required to provide. Hobby Lobby has brought this level of scrutiny on itself by declaring how seriously they take what THEY see as following a religion so discrepancies are worth a comment or two.

    And BTW, did you know damn near EVERYTHING has a risk??? You look rather silly trying to make one form of BC seem 'risky'...

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    I can't wait for the day when Mother Jones spends some time looking at the mutual fund holdings of all of the politicians who are anti-gun. Wouldn't it be interesting to see if any of their holdings are invested in companies that manufacture guns or any companies that are suppliers to any company involved in any way in the gun industry.

    Where was Mother Jones when it came out that Michael Moore owned stock in medical, health, pharmaceutical, defense and big oil companies likePfizer, Merck, Eli Lilly, Tenet Healthcare, Sunoco, General Electric and Halliburton, and owned stock in companies that outsource labor overseas? I know. They weren't around.

    And while this is all fascinating, it isn't the Supreme Court's job to cast a ruling on hypocrisy. They are supposed to interpret law and exercise judicial decisions on laws.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    And you seem to be a lot like an angry little bunny.

    As long as a company obeys the law I'm fine with Hobby Lobby offering 401(K) plans that support BC. Like minimum wage there are some things a company is required to provide. Hobby Lobby has brought this level of scrutiny on itself by declaring how seriously they take what THEY see as following a religion so discrepancies are worth a comment or two.

    And BTW, did you know damn near EVERYTHING has a risk??? You look rather silly trying to make one form of BC seem 'risky'...
    IUD's have gone from deadly dangerous to still having some serious risks even after 30 years of improvements. But IUD's have a special place in politics since the 1970's, and I suspect that has more to do with why there is such a politcal uproar over them. Hobby Lobby apparently offers plenty of BC options in its health insurance plan, but that's never enough for political hacks and feminazi fanatics.
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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Another CON game, yes too bad you didn't think about this a bit more.

    Hobby Lobby is attempting to get out of providing Health Care Insurance because a tiny fraction of what they pay MAY go to Birth Control which they claim soo violates their PERSONAL religious tenants they would rather face fines and court costs rather than abide by the law. .
    They aren't trying to get out of providing healthcare insurance. You may want to read the case before making such an inaccurate statement.

    The ACA requires that insurance include 20 specific forms of contraception. 4 of them contain FDA warnings that they may cause a formed fetus to abort. Hobby Lobby wants to remove these 4 specific contraceptives from their employee plans and only cover the other 16 forms of contraception.

    It's posts like this that are disturbing. You don't even know what is being argued in front of the Supreme Court.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Those who can account for where every dollar of their investments go, cast the first stone.
    I'd like to see what the Mother Jones employees' 401k investments are. Yes, MJ offers a 401k with a match to their employees. Wouldn't it be a hoot if their employees mutual funds were invested in companies that are in any way involved in any sector that MJ loves to attack, like Wall Street, the gun industry, big pharma, etc.?

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'd like to see what the Mother Jones employees' 401k investments are. Yes, MJ offers a 401k with a match to their employees. Wouldn't it be a hoot if their employees mutual funds were invested in companies that are in any way involved in any sector that MJ loves to attack, like Wall Street, the gun industry, big pharma, etc.?
    Investments are so convoluted I doubt, without extensive research, they'd know.

    There are criminal acts[IMO] taking place everyday on Wall Street and beyond but, it's not just Hobby Lobby that has money involved.
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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    IUD's have gone from deadly dangerous to still having some serious risks even after 30 years of improvements. But IUD's have a special place in politics since the 1970's, and I suspect that has more to do with why there is such a politcal uproar over them. Hobby Lobby apparently offers plenty of BC options in its health insurance plan, but that's never enough for political hacks and feminazi fanatics.
    As does the BC pill for some women... you are nit picking ONE form of BC in a CON attempt to claim concern for women's health...

    You can suspect anything you wish, you seem unable to prove much though. What insurance does Hobby Lobby offer?

    Now to get back to the facts... Hobby Lobby is suing the Government to avoid obeying the law. I don't see the heartfelt religious objection near as much as not wishing to provide comprehensive heath care insurance.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    4 of them contain FDA warnings that they may cause a formed fetus to abort.

    Please provide a link to the FDA which show such a warning. When verifying this statement all I could find was:

    5.2
    Existing Pregnancy Plan B One-Step is not effective in terminating an existing pregnancy.

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa.../021998lbl.pdf


    From the FDA.



    >>>>

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    They aren't trying to get out of providing healthcare insurance. You may want to read the case before making such an inaccurate statement. The ACA requires that insurance include 20 specific forms of contraception. 4 of them contain FDA warnings that they may cause a formed fetus to abort. Hobby Lobby wants to remove these 4 specific contraceptives from their employee plans and only cover the other 16 forms of contraception. It's posts like this that are disturbing. You don't even know what is being argued in front of the Supreme Court.
    I see it as a stalking horse... using 4 forms to deny them all... the law doesn't allow the employer to decide which forms of MEDICALLY approved treatments the employer will 'pay for'. I figure Hobby Lobby is trying to stick it's camel's nose into our tent.

    it is a bit of a false doctrine to claim Hobby Lobby can get out paying for abortive BC methods as the money pools in a collective bin for ALL insured members at the Insurance Company. Thus Hobby Lobby may demand their employees not get one of the dreaded 4 but Hobby Lobby's money in the pool sure can be used to fund a different company's employees.

    Then again an employee can take Hobby Lobby money and buy one of the dreaded 4 so once again Hobby Lobby money can be paying for a 'bad' drug.

    As best it is a face saving stunt by Hobby Lobby, at worst the start of eroding ACA coverage...

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