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Thread: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it does not matter if you think its a double standard, you and otherS do not dictate, what you shall receive, when other people,business is doing the offering , if you dont like what they offer, you free to seek your own way.

    It seems you people have never heard of rights...unless their your own
    First, capital letters and punctuation are usually deemed necessary if you want to have a reasoned debate.

    Second, I fail to see the point of your entire post, except wasting my time trying to decipher this gibberish:

    you and otherS do not dictate, what you shall receive, when other people,business is doing the offering ,
    Thirdly, rights are always weighed in contrast to others. My right to speak is weighed against the harm certain types of speech may inflict on your reputation (although in this case, you've done a pretty good job of shattering that yourself, no help needed). And exactly what right do you have here to say that businesses should not be held accountable for the wages and benefits (or the lack thereof) they provide to their employees? And so help me God, if you cite the 9th and 10th Amendments, I will personally tattoo those words on your forehead so the next time you argue against abortion rights, you can read them time and again.

    Fourth, bird.jpg. Enough said.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I'm very liberal myself but I don't see the double standard here. Their job as an employer is to give their employees the best possible retirement plan. How that money is invested has nothing do with endorsing any product or service and everything to do with creating financial security for the employees who have retirement plans. I can see how somebody would see this as evidence of a double standard. After all, Hobby Lobby's objection to providing contraceptive coverage is a bit of a stretch - that is, it's hard to imagine that their objection is really based on religious principles rather than a general outrage over the new law itself. Since they're so concerned with technically "endorsing" contraception, they shouldn't technically endorse contraception by including these companies in their employee's 401K plan.

    It's all a bit of a stretch. I'll give them a pass on the investment plan and condemn them for their stupid objection to Obamacare. If a politician who condemned guns but owned a mutual fund that included Smith and Wesson, I'd give them a pass too. I'm very tolerant I suppose
    It could just be me, but I like consistency. As others have pointed out in this thread, it is fairly easy to find faith-based mutual funds (ie, ones who are diversified enough to meet federal regulations while doing so without compromising spiritual ethics, namely, by avoiding companies like the ones that produce the IUD and Plan B). Given that, and Hobby Lobby's alleged religious objection to providing those services via healthcare coverage, it's one or the other, you don't get to do both. Either shut up and follow the law, or continue with the suit, but if you continue with the suit, don't tell me that Hobby Lobby's objections are religiously motivated, because other evidence destroys that claim.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Oops, so much for religious beliefs being the reason Hobby Lobby doesn't want to cover contraception. In the end, it's all about yet another group of hypocritical political assholes who want power over women.

    Article is here.

    Thread is here.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    Pretty sure most understood this entire fiasco was about money in the first place....not unexpected.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why are you linking to toxic hate sites?
    That was my thought too. As soon as I saw HuffPo I closed it.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrecess View Post
    So wait, the fact that Hobby Lobby willingly invests in these companies (despite the products they make), while at the same time objecting to those very same products based on a corporations religious objections is nothing?

    I'm sorry, I truly see a double standard here. Either you object to these products, or you don't. If you do, don't invest in them and don't offer health insurance. If you don't, shut up and stop wasting the Supreme Court's time.
    Boy are you a scared little bunny, worried to death about what one company does. Most people would say it's none of YOUR ****ing business what they offer their employees. And btw, did you know that IUD's have risks? Don't you care about women's health?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Darkrecess, I'll take your post one point at a time. I removed your pictures because I don't waste time on that.

    Agreed, although irrelevant. If you look at the original post, I mention only in passing that this might have a negligible impact, if any at all, on the SCOTUS decision. My post is more referenced to the rest of us who aren't sitting on the nation's highest court, and how we spend our dollars when looking to buy arts and crafts. If you want to do so at a store that is religiously based, are you going to do so at Hobby Lobby, knowing that they don't take steps to ensure that their 401(k) dollars don't go to support companies who invest in this type of research and benefit from the sale and use of these products. In my case, I am ardently opposed to guns, and I steer clear of any store that sells guns on its premises, if I can avoid it.



    Okay, that's great. That's what you do, but your actions aren't being litigated in the SCOTUS.

    Look, let's get this straight. IUD's and Plan-B contraceptives are not abortion causing drugs, as least not under US law and regulations. We can have that debate if you wish, but until you change the law itself, the drugs are considered preventive contraception, not abortion-inducing drugs. If you actually look at how they work, the IUD's never allow the egg to come in contact with sperm (thus conception never happens), and the plan-B contraceptive prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the placenta, thereby causing a natural miscarriage before the fertilized egg (at this stage, still a 1-cell organism) has a chance to even develop the capacity to hold religious beliefs or experience pain

    That's nice, but the FDA warning labels on the 4 drugs contraceptives in question say otherwise.

    Under the law, there is nothing different between those four drugs and other forms of available contraception. Your moral beliefs are yours to define (as are mine), but as a society we adhere to a secular standard that prevents the transmission of religious biases into codified law. And, to be quite honest, that is not even the question pending before the court. The question pending is whether a corporation, as a distinct legal entity from its owners and stockholders, has religious rights, the same as citizens do. I could go for hours talking about how a decision for Hobby Lobby would hamstring boardrooms all across the US (which is quite likely why exactly zero amicus briefs have been filed by US businesses on behalf of Hobby Lobby), but suffice it to say that a decision for Hobby Lobby would pierce the corporate veil, potentially destroying one of the biggest benefits of corporate ownership of a business.

    I already know what is being argued before the SCOTUS judges, and my guess is, so do they.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    Those who can account for where every dollar of their investments go, cast the first stone.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Oops, so much for religious beliefs being the reason Hobby Lobby doesn't want to cover contraception. In the end, it's all about yet another group of hypocritical political assholes who want power over women.

    Article is here.
    Be all the hack you can be, join the liberal army. Prove to me that none of your investments invest in anything your against. That shouldn't be a problem for you right?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby's Hypocrisy: The Company's Retirement Plan Invests in Contraception

    I don't know if this is all that fair of a criticism. I try to invest in social responsible funds, but for all I know there are companies in funds I invest in whose business model revolves around grinding up kittens and puppies.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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