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Thread: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Where does the bible say that life begins when sperm meets egg? In Genesis it says life begins with the breath of life from God. So now the government should determine when life begins...based on HL's interpretation of the bible?

    Hobby Lobby owners incorporated their company...that means the company is a separate entity from the owners and doesn't have religious belief. So why should the government consider the owners personal beliefs if they aren't personally or legally liable for the company?
    now you are just being obtuse.

    it doesn't matter when the government thinks life begins that is not the argument.
    their company has the right to free speech and is able to do other things under the first amendment so why is religious belief excluded when it is protected under the 1st amendment as well.

    the company is only separate in a financial sense.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    In other words, not all employees may share the same subjective value of morals as the owner.
    do you know all the mutual funds you invest in and every company that they do?
    i am sure they are invested in energy, manufacturing and other non-green eco friendly stuff that i am sure you support. so does that mean you are a hypocrite?

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrecess View Post
    Hello again all,

    Just found this little nugget. If true, it would certainly be a blow to the Hobby Lobby position (their standing with the rest of us, including those who defend them), if not to their case pending in front of the SCOTUS as well. A company that protests being forced to comply with a mandate to provide contraceptive coverage (including IUD's and Plan B Contraceptives) based on their religious objection to those services either has no business investing in these companies, or has no business arguing that their religious beliefs provide them with an exception to avoid providing services they religiously object to while continuing to invest in companies that manufacture those products.

    Thoughts?

    Yeah, I have a thought. The Hobby Lobby owner needs to get a hobby. And one that doesn't involve trying to impose his religious dogma off on others.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    now you are just being obtuse.
    So are you.

    it doesn't matter when the government thinks life begins that is not the argument.
    their company has the right to free speech and is able to do other things under the first amendment so why is religious belief excluded when it is protected under the 1st amendment as well.

    the company is only separate in a financial sense.
    If HL is incorporated then it is separated from the owners in a legal sense. That is the point of incorporating.


    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    Lemon v. Kurtzman, 91 S. Ct. 2105 (1971)

    Established the three part test for determining if an action of government violates First Amendment's separation of church and state:
    1) the government action must have a secular purpose;
    2) its primary purpose must not be to inhibit or to advance religion;
    3) there must be no excessive entanglement between government and religion.



    Is the government prohibiting HL owner's from practicing their religion? No.

    Is the government advancing or sponsering HL owner's religion if they change a secular law to fit HLs belief? Yes.

    Is the government violating the first amendment if it gives legal cover and tax breaks to a company that uses its religion to make a profit off the public? Yes.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    i think i will believe the webmd post thanks. it is in line with the other articles out there.

    plan b does prevent the attachment of a fertilized egg as part of the drug. to HL that is considered an abortion. that is their religious belief backed up by science.
    Plan B (Levonorgestrel) Drug Information: Medication Guide and Patient Information - Prescribing Information at RxList

    basically backs up the webmd site.

    It is possible that Plan B (levonorgestrel) may also work by preventing fertilization of an egg (the uniting of sperm with the egg) or by preventing attachment (implantation) to the uterus (womb),

    i think you need to do some more research before saying people are wrong.
    I have done research. I have medical knowledge and I know progesterone is used to help implantation in IVF and to help prevent miscarriages in high risk pregnancies.

    Since Plan B has no estrogen in it it does not thicken the lining of the uterus and does not prevent implantation.

    Plan B only works before fertilization.

    I said you were mistaken , it is not your fault that there is a lot of old misinformation on the web.

    I am just trying to help others understand how Plan B really works.
    Last edited by minnie616; 04-03-14 at 04:33 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I have done research. I have medical knowledge and I know progesterone is used to help implantation in IVF and to help prevent miscarriages in high risk pregnancies.

    Since Plan B has no estrogen in it it does not thicken the lining of the uterus and does not prevent implantation.

    Plan B only works before fertilization.

    I said you were mistaken , it is not your fault that there is a lot of old misinformation on the web.

    I am just trying to help others understand how Plan B really works.
    i have just posted 2 links that says you are wrong i think i will believe them. one is a prescription site. anonymous internet poster vs medical doctor sites hmm medical doctor site wins
    calling it old information does not make it so. medical websites would update themselves to the current prescription uses more so a drug/prescription site.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So are you.
    You obviously do not know what obtuse means.

    If HL is incorporated then it is separated from the owners in a legal sense. That is the point of incorporating.
    Legal as far as finances go. that is the only reason to incorporate is to protect your finances.


    Is the government prohibiting HL owner's from practicing their religion? No.

    Is the government advancing or sponsering HL owner's religion if they change a secular law to fit HLs belief? Yes.

    Is the government violating the first amendment if it gives legal cover and tax breaks to a company that uses its religion to make a profit off the public? Yes.
    You are incorrect on the first one. forcing them to buy something that violates their religious practice actually does violate their religious freedom.
    that is why they are in court.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    You obviously do not know what obtuse means.
    Stop being obtuse.


    Legal as far as finances go. that is the only reason to incorporate is to protect your finances.
    Legal as far as the law goes, too. People incorporate so they can't be sued or held personally or legally liable for the company. People file for incorporation with the government, not a bank or a broker.


    You are incorrect on the first one. forcing them to buy something that violates their religious practice actually does violate their religious freedom.
    that is why they are in court.
    With incorporation in mind....do the owners pay for the company employee's health insurance out of their own pocket or the companies pocket?
    Last edited by Moot; 04-03-14 at 05:27 PM.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I have done research. I have medical knowledge and I know progesterone is used to help implantation in IVF and to help prevent miscarriages in high risk pregnancies.

    Since Plan B has no estrogen in it it does not thicken the lining of the uterus and does not prevent implantation.

    Plan B only works before fertilization.

    I said you were mistaken , it is not your fault that there is a lot of old misinformation on the web.

    I am just trying to help others understand how Plan B really works.
    Minnie...

    I'm glad you posted this. I was wrong about Plan B, too. I thought that it prevented implantation...rather than doing it's work prior to fertilization.

    I just realized what I was reading was possibly about as specific type of IUD, which does cause the thickening of the lining. Am I on track? But, in any case, not sure about all IUDs as I know they make them several ways.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    i have just posted 2 links that says you are wrong i think i will believe them. one is a prescription site. anonymous internet poster vs medical doctor sites hmm medical doctor site wins
    calling it old information does not make it so. medical websites would update themselves to the current prescription uses more so a drug/prescription site.
    The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists sent a brief to the Supreme Court explaining says that the hormone in Plan B has been widely studied and "current evidence shows that it works by preventing or disrupting ovulation, but is not effective after ovulation."


    In a brief to the Supreme Court last October,

    http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-con...H-et-al....pdf



    the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and 10 other health professional associations make that assertion.


    The label hasn't been updated "since the product was originally approved in 1999," the brief says, "and it does not reflect the most current research."

    The brief further says that the hormone in Plan B has been widely studied and "current evidence shows that[ it works by preventing or disrupting ovulation, but is not effective after ovulation."

    Teva Pharmaceuticals, Plan B's manufacturer, is well aware of the problem with its label.

    Research: Morning-after pill doesn't harm fertilized egg - Local News - lancasteronline.com

    from this article
    Contraceptive efficacy of emergency contraception with levonorgestrel given before before or after ovulation.
    BACKGROUND:
    We aimed to evaluate whether emergency contraception with levonorgestrel (LNG-EC) administered after ovulation is equally effective to LNG-EC administered before ovulation.

    CONCLUSION:
    We conclude that LNG-EC prevents pregnancy only when taken before fertilization of the ovum has occurred.

    Contraceptive efficacy of emergency contracept... [Contraception. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

    From TIME.com

    Viewpoint: Plan B Is Very Misunderstood
    Emergency contraception is not "the abortion pill." Like other forms of birth control, it prevents fertilization in the first place
    Cecile Richards: Plan B Emergency Contraception Is Misunderstood | TIME.com
    Last edited by minnie616; 04-03-14 at 09:09 PM. Reason: fix quotes
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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