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Thread: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

  1. #131
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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    From what i understand is that Plan B does not allow the egg to attach to the uterus. so if the egg is fertilized and try's to attach it can't therefore it aborts. If you believe that life begins at conception like most Christians and Catholics do then that is considered an abortion.

    a fertilized egg would be considered an existing pregnancy.
    You are mistaken.

    Plan B only delays ovulation.
    It does not inhibit implantation.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  2. #132
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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    There is a difference in not allowing a pregancy to happen and killing an existing pregnancy. if you don't know the difference then i can't help you.
    plan b kills an existing pregnancy. typical birth control doesn't kill existing pregnancies it simply doesn't allow them to happen.
    Again you mistaken.

    Plan B does not kill an existing pregnancy.

    In fact plan B only contains progesterone which doctors use in high risk pregnancies to keep a zygote ( fertilized egg ) from miscarrying ( self aborting ).
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #133
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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    You are mistaken.

    Plan B only delays ovulation.
    It does not inhibit implantation.
    No i am not mistaken. that is just 2 of the possibilities and it depends on where you are.

    from webmd

    It is also possible that this type of emergency birth control prevents implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus by altering its lining

    no it contains 1.5 milligrams of levonorgestrel

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Foregoing: Just mentioned or stated; preceding. Said, written, or encountered just before; previous


    There wasn't a demand for an educated workforce when the framers wrote the constitution. The industrial revolution changed all that and demanded the government impose mandatory education so the people could get a job in industry. Helping society adapt to new technology is considered providing for the general welfare.

    I don't see anyone using violent force on you...at least your typing fingers still seem to work. Taxation and spending is the most important power that congress has.



    You seem to be confusing the Articles of Confederation with the Constitution. Under the AoC the states failed to voluntarily pay taxes which helped to convince the founders of the constitution that the federal government needed strong taxation authority.



    Alexander Hamilton won the day as far as taxation and spending on general welfare goes.....


    "With respect to the meaning of “the general welfare” the pages of The Federalist itself disclose a sharp divergence of views between its two principal authors. Hamilton adopted the literal, broad meaning of the clause;533 Madison contended that the powers of taxation and appropriation of the proposed government should be regarded as merely instrumental to its remaining powers, in other words, as little more than a power of self–support.534 From an early date Congress has acted upon the interpretation espoused by Hamilton..."
    CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Article I


    "... It must embrace a provision for the support of the national civil list; for the payment of the national debts contracted, or that may be contracted; and, in general, for all those matters which will call for disbursements out of the national treasury. The conclusion is, that there must be interwoven, in the frame of the government, a general power of taxation, in one shape or another.

    Money is, with propriety, considered as the vital principle of the body politic; as that which sustains its life and motion, and enables it to perform its most essential functions. A complete power, therefore, to procure a regular and adequate supply of it, as far as the resources of the community will permit, may be regarded as an indispensable ingredient in every constitution. From a deficiency in this particular, one of two evils must ensue; either the people must be subjected to continual plunder, as a substitute for a more eligible mode of supplying the public wants, or the government must sink into a fatal atrophy, and, in a short course of time, perish...."
    https://timpanogos.wordpress.com/201...federalist-30/


    “The public necessities must be satisfied; this can only be done by contributions of the whole society. “ - Alexander Hamilton, The Continentalist VI
    foregoing powers means....... the powers listed in article 1 section 8

    example: congress is granted the power of money...therefore it can create any federal laws dealing with u.s. currency.

    if the founders rejected education as a power of the federal government at the convention, ..how can government exercise a power not granted to them?

    if i am forced by the government to perform an action, such a labor for another citizen, or pay the cost for material goods or services for another citizen, then i am in servitude to that citizen for their needs of goods and services.

    nothing can be a right, if it lays a burden or cost on to another citizen.

    if you going to quote Hamilton quote all of him in context, not only the parts you like.....Hamilton is clear, government is limited and it cannot tax for anything, and the government spend the money on anything it just wants to do.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Actually it was republicans that were on the committee who insisted that the final draft of health care act replace the word penalty with the word tax all through the act.

    They thought the word tax was less palatable but the word tax backfired on the republicans when the act was reviewed by the Supreme Court.
    no this is not correct, the argument at the USSC, the government lawyers, changed it during the court case from penalty to a tax, because they was actually advised by liberal members on the court, that thier case would go no where... if they stuck to that position.....i know listened to the oral arguments when it happened that day

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The point is 80% of the country was already being fiscally responsible and in this particular case, Hobby Lobby was already both providing insurance for their employees as well as paying unskilled workers twice the minimum wage. You can bleat on all about fiscal responsibility. I doubt you understand the meaning of the term. To you fiscal responsibility is someone ELSE paying the bills.
    No, to me fiscal responsibility is not complaining about a pound of social welfare spending if I am unwilling to use an ounce of prevention, instead.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    SO your defense is HL's ignorance

    Not sure if that's a legally valid defense, but it sure is a credible one
    What defense? I don't care what Hobby Lobby does.

    I just think it's idiotic to call them hypocritical over something they likely had no idea about and I think the outrage is completely contrived. I think if an ultra-conservative news magazine found that Planned Parenthood's employees 401(k)s contained mutual funds that contained stocks of companies who are Pro Life you would have absolutely nothing to say. Scratch that, I think you'd be insisting that it's irrational for Planned Parenthood to delve that deeply into their employee's retirement stock.
    Last edited by shavingcollywob; 04-03-14 at 11:31 AM.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Why I agree with you, Sir. This whole thing on it's OK for Hobby Lobby to invest in companies that makes profit in birth control and not seeing anything wrong with that, but that same company (Hobby Lobby) turns around and does a double-take and all of a sudden says that they (Hobby Lobby) are not going to pay for contraceptives that they helped invest in is one h*** of a contradiction that's quite noticeable.

    It's like having your cake and eating it too. I guess the best way to describe this is integrity; it does say a lot about a person or a company.
    Is it safe to say you're very young? I mean what adult doesn't know what a 401(k) plan is?

    Hobby Lobby isn't investing in companies who profit from birth control. They're literally investing in nothing here. A 401(k) is a retirement plan. It's their employee's plan but most employers match contributions up to a point. That's all Hobby Lobby is doing. It's extremely doubtful that they have any idea what's in *ANY* of their employees 401(k) plans and there is no real reason they should. It's pretty doubtful that ownership has much idea what's in their 401(k) plan either. It's pretty doubtful that ownership has much idea which companies even make birth control. I certainly don't.
    Last edited by shavingcollywob; 04-03-14 at 11:38 AM.

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    No, to me fiscal responsibility is not complaining about a pound of social welfare spending if I am unwilling to use an ounce of prevention, instead.
    Except you ARE the one complaining. Hobby Lobby was a model organization providing minimum wage workers an average salary of TWICE the minimum wage AND providing them health care. But because people like you didnt think it was fair that they didnt provide something different, they have been sued, and now have put that healthcare at risk for 15,000.

    BTW...how many people do YOU employ? Do YOU pay them twice minimum wage for unskilled workers? Do YOU provide for the healthcare needs for 15,000 people?

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    Re: Hobby Lobby invests in companies that makes IUD's/Plan-B Contraceptives

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Except you ARE the one complaining. Hobby Lobby was a model organization providing minimum wage workers an average salary of TWICE the minimum wage AND providing them health care. But because people like you didnt think it was fair that they didnt provide something different, they have been sued, and now have put that healthcare at risk for 15,000.

    BTW...how many people do YOU employ? Do YOU pay them twice minimum wage for unskilled workers? Do YOU provide for the healthcare needs for 15,000 people?
    Why should a Capitalist "impose" morals with merely his Capital?

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