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Thread: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

  1. #121
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Because there are very dangerous crazy people. Most terrorist plots and attempts are by Americans, not foreigners.
    But most Americans are not terrorists? Why treat all with suspicion worthy of spying efforts (waste resources with that) when you could divert this effort in other places?
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I don't hate the NSA. Since 9/11 there has not been one foreign terror attack against the USA that has been successful. I count that as a job well done.

    He needs to stop worrying about the ignorant mob who bitch about everything while doing nothing because bitching is lazy and easy to do.
    And there was no terrorist attack like 9/11 for 200 years before 9/11 also. Was that due to the NSA also?
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Are not American people outright communicative? They tell you what they think right there and then. Why is spying your own necessary? Do not you trust your own countrymen?
    No.

    But I'd actually spy, not do what the NSA is doing by just storing metadata and accessing it via FISA warrants.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Oh, I get their point. I'm just offering a logical rebuttal to it.
    I meant you're missing the point of the Bill of Rights. The word "privacy" doesn't have to be in the Bill to be protected by it.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    I meant you're missing the point of the Bill of Rights. The word "privacy" doesn't have to be in the Bill to be protected by it.
    What else is protected that isn't mentioned? A nice pair of suede boots? Free education? Lakefront property? What needs to be mentioned in it and what doesn't?

    Anyway, it's beside the point: freedom of speech is in the Bill of Rights and it's protected, but we still don't assume that means literally any speech at any time. Why would something that isn't actually mentioned be given even more leeway? Regardless, the government storing metadata that Verizon already has but will eventually throwaway isn't some horrible Nazi-esque moment anyway.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What else is protected that isn't mentioned? A nice pair of suede boots? Free education? Lakefront property? What needs to be mentioned in it and what doesn't?
    Are you deliberately being facetious? The Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution reads:

    Quote Originally Posted by Constitution
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
    I would think any human capable of rational thought should be able to make the judgment that privacy is protected.

    Anyway, it's beside the point: freedom of speech is in the Bill of Rights and it's protected, but we still don't assume that means literally any speech at any time.
    It is true that no right is absolute, but that doesn't mean that said right should be disregarded entirely. If a judge issues a warrant based on probable cause to search through someone's computer and phone data, I'm fine with that, as that constitutes a reasonable and lawful violation of the right to privacy in order to ensure the security of our society.
    Regardless, the government storing metadata that Verizon already has but will eventually throwaway isn't some horrible Nazi-esque moment anyway.
    I don't think it's a big deal either; I just don't like it. This isn't some Orwellian scheme where the NSA's actually monitoring what we're doing, it's just the collection of private data without our consent to be sieved through in case any useful information turns up. That's not North Korea, but it's still unpleasant and unnecessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Are you deliberately being facetious? The Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution reads:


    I would think any human capable of rational thought should be able to make the judgment that privacy is protected.
    I am deliberately being facetious. I think it's ridiculous that someone can say the Bill of Rights protects something that it doesn't even mention, just because they think it should. That's what that boils down to. But, as I said, that's neither here nor there and is in fact peripheral to the discussion because of what we agreed upon regarding absolute rights.

    It is true that no right is absolute, but that doesn't mean that said right should be disregarded entirely. If a judge issues a warrant based on probable cause to search through someone's computer and phone data, I'm fine with that, as that constitutes a reasonable and lawful violation of the right to privacy in order to ensure the security of our society.
    My argument is that NSA collection on US persons doesn't entirely disregard this "right to privacy" that remains unmentioned in the Bill of Rights. It's storage of metadata, and that metadata can't even be looked at without a FISA warrant.

    I don't think it's a big deal either; I just don't like it. This isn't some Orwellian scheme where the NSA's actually monitoring what we're doing, it's just the collection of private data without our consent to be sieved through in case any useful information turns up. That's not North Korea, but it's still unpleasant and unnecessary.
    I think that as technology expands, the forces in the world that have internal monopolies on the authorized use of force will scramble to keep up with it. That's all this is. There's no going to be some revolutionary method of communication that suddenly arises that the whole population can use that governments are just going to ignore. If they did, those governments would end up falling. And nothing would replace them. Now, there are some people in the world that think general anarchism is good, but I'm not one of them, so I understand that governments are a necessary part of civilization.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Because there are very dangerous crazy people. Most terrorist plots and attempts are by Americans, not foreigners.
    Yes, but they are low probability events and do not excuse gross expansion of government and general force against the Populace. Between the probability of terrorist attack and the certainty of government interference, I'll take the former.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I think it's ridiculous that someone can say the Bill of Rights protects something that it doesn't even mention, just because they think it should.
    9th: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    10th: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    You were saying?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Retiring NSA chief doesn't understand why people hate the NSA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    9th: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    10th: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    You were saying?
    I said it doesn't mention it. And it doesn't. What were you saying? That I never told you what me degree was in? Is that what you were saying?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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