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Thread: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would Stay C

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You have got to be kidding. For seven full pages nobody questions the premise of the OP, until post #70 in which Lowdown reveals that that there is dispute with the credibility of the OP. In the very next post, in #71, you then demand evidence from me that the U.S. interfered in Haiti's affairs. So is this story something you plan on sticking with?

    I still don't see how Lowdown's posts changed anything about my arguement. Why don't you try explaining it without the hysterics and hyperboli?

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Min wage is a stupid idea that does far more harm then good.
    Historically inaccurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That is not our decision to make. Our State Department should not be getting involved in another country's business. And most especially not when it's only to benefit state-side corporations. How is a country ever to improve itself if it's blackmailed or coerced into holding wages down by the government of the United States?
    Not government...corporations.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Post a list of all those other companies?
    Saab, Mitsubishi, Honda, Volvo, peugeot, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, daewoo, Hyundai, Mazda, koenigsegg, Audi, Porsche, lancia, Aston Martin, Ferrari, TVR, just to name couple from just one specific market off the top of my head.



    It's a funny paradox republicrats find themselves here...domestically, they would tell unhappy, poor American laborers to simply find another job or start their own business. But here, clearly, we see that non American poor clearly can't be held to the same high standard...instead, we require the US government at the behest of corporate interests to leverage political force against another government to act contrary to the interest of the people it governs all to protect current profit margins. Instead of simply allowing them to come up with their own means of production, as is often the stated expectation in this country.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    But the "economic reality" is that a massive increase in the minimum wage will screw the unemployed masses—making it more expensive to employ each person rarely means more people wind up employed—and won't do much for their underpaid brethren in the long term anyway.

    When it comes time for Hanes to decide whether to build that second (or third or fourth) factory in Haiti, the extra $12.5 million a year (by CJR's calculations) that the Haitian government tried to extract from their firm will be on the minds of the executives and shareholders.

    The question is never whether a company can "afford" to increase worker salaries. The question is whether the world's skivvies- and dungarees-makers will choose to keep doing business in Haiti. That's something the Obama administration gets, even if CJR doesn't...."

    Haitian Underwear Workers and Their Small Wages - Hit & Run : Reason.com

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    But the "economic reality" is that a massive increase in the minimum wage will screw the unemployed masses—making it more expensive to employ each person rarely means more people wind up employed—and won't do much for their underpaid brethren in the long term anyway.

    When it comes time for Hanes to decide whether to build that second (or third or fourth) factory in Haiti, the extra $12.5 million a year (by CJR's calculations) that the Haitian government tried to extract from their firm will be on the minds of the executives and shareholders.

    The question is never whether a company can "afford" to increase worker salaries. The question is whether the world's skivvies- and dungarees-makers will choose to keep doing business in Haiti. That's something the Obama administration gets, even if CJR doesn't...."

    Haitian Underwear Workers and Their Small Wages - Hit & Run : Reason.com
    Opening premise is historically inaccurate.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    No, it has come out that the US companies didn't lobby for lower wages. The idea that they were angry about the increase in minimum wages and the implication that they would have pulled out of Haiti with a wage increase are lies. Nation Magazine has said as much and claims that their article was misinterpreted.

    The State Dept. intervened at the request of the Haitian big shots.

    The US congress tried to help the Samoan tuna fishing industry by imposing a minimum wage which resulted in nearly destroying their entire tuna fishing industy. Samoa is holding their breath that the last remaining cannery, Starkist won't pull out. I don't think the Obama administration wants that to happen to Haiti.

    The US intervened when many companies threatened to pull out of Haiti because the government of Haiti decided to raise the minimum wage inspite of contracts that companies had with Haiti manufacturing contractors. If the increase in minimum wage had been left to stand...Haiti would have lost hundreds of thousands of jobs and future economic growth at time when their struggling economy can least afford it.

    I know it's counter intuitive to western ideals...but in trying to help a poor country...many NGOs and do gooders end up hurting it more. So in this case, I think the Obama administration did the right thing in trying to keep the companies that can provide jobs for Haiti, in Haiti. If he hadn't there would be more poverty, not less.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Opening premise is historically inaccurate.
    Raising the minimum wage nearly killed off the American Samoan fishing industry and their economy....

    "...A report last year by the U.S. Government Accountability Office said employment in American Samoa has declined because of the minimum wage increases that began in 2007. The 142-page report said the decrease in employment was a result of losing a tuna cannery in American Samoa. Employers blamed the minimum wage increase for layoffs, work hour reductions and hiring freezes....."

    Congress OKs American Samoa minimum wage freeze - Boston.com

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You made a claim, now back it up.
    And you made a silly implication. My statement requires no specific backing when it is simple economics and common sense.

    But since you are only going to accuse me of not "backing my claim" then here you go:
    Haiti Two Years Later: Businesses that Help Rebuild a Country | Corporate Citizenship Center
    Haiti: A Bright Business Horizon | Corporate Citizenship Center

    Heineken, Accenture, and Digicel are a few non-American examples.

    I think the sky is blue too. Want me to provide evidence to back that up?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    How do you propose the Haitians become more self suffcient without any jobs or outside investment at all?
    They can start by changing their tax system. Cities/states/countries like Johannesburg, California, Canada, and Alaska saw economic success when they shifted their taxes away from wages and capital and replaced them with land/resource dues (LVT). Instead of the wealth being funneled to a select few, it can go to a citizens dividend fund so the citizens can share the wealth of their nation. The natural result will be lower costs, which will allow the Haitians to either start their own businesses or be self sufficient on their own land.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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