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Thread: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would Stay C

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Right, the wages are cheaper over there already... So why aren't they over there?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Then what is the point, Maggie? That the US got caught trying to help Haitians help themselves?
    That concept is really condescending to the Haitian workers who were looking forward to improving their lives. It's what the Haitians wanted for themselves, and you don't get to make the claim that we were "helping them help themselves." Not credibly at least. It reminds me of complaints about the Iraq War, and one of the most common troll responses to them was to say "And aren't you grateful you live in a country where you're allowed to voice those complaints?" You might think you're being cute, but you're just demonstrating that you're hopelessly alienated from the needs and hopes of people in a different country.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Right, the wages are cheaper over there already... So why aren't they over there?
    I don't know, why aren't they?

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I don't know, why aren't they?
    Maybe because higher wages aren't exactly the end of the world?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If you ask the Haitians what they would prefer...a job that only pays 31 cents an hour....or no job at all....which do you think they would chose?
    At 61 cents an hour do you think Hanes would back up and leave? So who has cheaper labor?

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That concept is really condescending to the Haitian workers who were looking forward to improving their lives. It's what the Haitians wanted for themselves, and you don't get to make the claim that we were "helping them help themselves." Not credibly at least. It reminds me of complaints about the Iraq War, and one of the most common troll responses to them was to say "And aren't you grateful you live in a country where you're allowed to voice those complaints?" You might think you're being cute, but you're just demonstrating that you're hopelessly alienated from the needs and hopes of people in a different country.
    It is the 21st century version of "White Man's Burden."
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That concept is really condescending to the Haitian workers who were looking forward to improving their lives. It's what the Haitians wanted for themselves, and you don't get to make the claim that we were "helping them help themselves." Not credibly at least. It reminds me of complaints about the Iraq War, and one of the most common troll responses to them was to say "And aren't you grateful you live in a country where you're allowed to voice those complaints?" You might think you're being cute, but you're just demonstrating that you're hopelessly alienated from the needs and hopes of people in a different country.
    I think it's more condenscending to deny someone a job so they can support themselves and bring their families out of poverty, simply because the idea of a low wage offends your western sensibilities.


    "...Hyder cited the example of a 45‐year‐old divorcee named Khadijah who works as a line manager at a factory. Khadijah raised her only child as a single parent, saving and providing for her daughter’s college tuition and tutoring by working full‐time for over 15 years, Hyder noted. “Her financial capabilities paved the road for her family’s social mobility – in three generations, Khadijah’s family had gone from rural housewife to blue‐collar working woman to college graduate,” Hyder said.

    In a broader context, the textile industry – which did not really even exist in Bangladesh prior to the 1970s – has inadvertently spurred a mini-revolution of sorts in the country by prompting an exodus of poor rural women into cities, working at jobs, earning money and often becoming crucial financial providers for their families. “As garments workers, women are now earning salaries, participating in formal sector work, managing personal finances, encouraging their children to pursue higher education, and defying traditional marriage standards by marrying later,” Hyder wrote. “The garments industry has created the rise of financially independent and successful women in Bangladesh and is responsible for a dramatic shift in paradigm for Bangladeshi society. “
    Despite Low Pay, Poor Work Conditions, Garment Factories Empowering Millions Of Bangladeshi Women
    Last edited by Moot; 03-27-14 at 06:20 PM.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I think it's more condenscending to deny someone a job so they can support themselves and bring their families out of poverty, simply because the idea of a low wage offends your western sensibilities.


    "...Hyder cited the example of a 45‐year‐old divorcee named Khadijah who works as a line manager at a factory. Khadijah raised her only child as a single parent, saving and providing for her daughter’s college tuition and tutoring by working full‐time for over 15 years, Hyder noted. “Her financial capabilities paved the road for her family’s social mobility – in three generations, Khadijah’s family had gone from rural housewife to blue‐collar working woman to college graduate,” Hyder said.

    In a broader context, the textile industry – which did not really even exist in Bangladesh prior to the 1970s – has inadvertently spurred a mini-revolution of sorts in the country by prompting an exodus of poor rural women into cities, working at jobs, earning money and often becoming crucial financial providers for their families. “As garments workers, women are now earning salaries, participating in formal sector work, managing personal finances, encouraging their children to pursue higher education, and defying traditional marriage standards by marrying later,” Hyder wrote. “The garments industry has created the rise of financially independent and successful women in Bangladesh and is responsible for a dramatic shift in paradigm for Bangladeshi society. “
    Despite Low Pay, Poor Work Conditions, Garment Factories Empowering Millions Of Bangladeshi Women
    You're arguing against minimum wage in general, which you won't get any agreement from me on. You apparently are unaware of why we created those laws in the first place. But besides that, you're still denying another country's right to choose their own path for themselves. That's condescending.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You're arguing against minimum wage in general, which you won't get any agreement from me on. You apparently are unaware of why we created those laws in the first place. But besides that, you're still denying another country's right to choose their own path for themselves. That's condescending.
    The OP is about Haiti and that is what I am discussing. If you want to talk about minimum wage in a highly developed country like the US then start another thread.

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    Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Haiti clearly wished to improve their country in their own way, but we interfered not for the benefit of the employee but on behalf of the companies, and either way we'll never know now. It was completely inappropriate.
    No, it has come out that the US companies didn't lobby for lower wages. The idea that they were angry about the increase in minimum wages and the implication that they would have pulled out of Haiti with a wage increase are lies. Nation Magazine has said as much and claims that their article was misinterpreted.

    The State Dept. intervened at the request of the Haitian big shots.

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