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WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would Stay C

Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

As soon as you provide evidence first, seeing as, again, right up until Lowdown's post, you accepted that premise.
I have provided evidence along with links that help show the US is building infrastructure, energy, jobs, education to help bring in business and outside investors to help improve the Haitian economy. You have provided absolutely nothing except a condenscending attitude that US would even dare to help the Haitian economy.
 
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Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

How about any company that wants to outsource to save money and increase profits? That is one of the silliest requests I have ever read on this forum (and I have seen a lot of them).

I want the Haitians to be self-sufficient, not dependent on slave wages.

How do you propose the Haitians become more self suffcient without any jobs or outside investment at all?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

I have provided evidence along with links that help show the US is building infrastructure, energy, jobs, education to help bring in business and outside investors to help improve the Haitian economy. You have provided absolutely nothing except a condenscending attitude that US would even dare to help the Haitian economy.

The premise of the thread (which you accepted until Lowdown's post, by the way, at which point you immediately and hilariously asked for proof of it), was that the State Department, courtesy of U.S. companies, pressured Haiti into abandoning a rise in the country's minimum wage. You argued that this was for the better of the country. Do you believe that if U.S. companies invests in infrastructure in the country that that country no longer has the right to self-determine their own laws?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

The premise of the thread (which you accepted until Lowdown's post, by the way, at which point you immediately and hilariously asked for proof of it), was that the State Department, courtesy of U.S. companies, pressured Haiti into abandoning a rise in the country's minimum wage. You argued that this was for the better of the country. Do you believe that if U.S. companies invests in infrastructure in the country that that country no longer has the right to self-determine their own laws?

I fail to see how my argument has changed because of Lowdown....especially considering I hadn't read any of his posts until just now and only because you keep mentioning them.

You argued that this was for the better of the country. Do you believe that if U.S. companies invests in infrastructure in the country that that country no longer has the right to self-determine their own laws?
No, I don't believe that.
 
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Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

I fail to see how my argument has changed because of Lowdown....especially considering I hadn't read any of his posts until just now and only because you keep mentioning them.

You have got to be kidding. For seven full pages nobody questions the premise of the OP, until post #70 in which Lowdown reveals that that there is dispute with the credibility of the OP. In the very next post, in #71, you then demand evidence from me that the U.S. interfered in Haiti's affairs. So is this story something you plan on sticking with?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

You have got to be kidding. For seven full pages nobody questions the premise of the OP, until post #70 in which Lowdown reveals that that there is dispute with the credibility of the OP. In the very next post, in #71, you then demand evidence from me that the U.S. interfered in Haiti's affairs. So is this story something you plan on sticking with?


I still don't see how Lowdown's posts changed anything about my arguement. Why don't you try explaining it without the hysterics and hyperboli?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Min wage is a stupid idea that does far more harm then good.

Historically inaccurate.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

That is not our decision to make. Our State Department should not be getting involved in another country's business. And most especially not when it's only to benefit state-side corporations. How is a country ever to improve itself if it's blackmailed or coerced into holding wages down by the government of the United States?

Not government...corporations.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Post a list of all those other companies?

Saab, Mitsubishi, Honda, Volvo, peugeot, Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, daewoo, Hyundai, Mazda, koenigsegg, Audi, Porsche, lancia, Aston Martin, Ferrari, TVR, just to name couple from just one specific market off the top of my head.



It's a funny paradox republicrats find themselves here...domestically, they would tell unhappy, poor American laborers to simply find another job or start their own business. But here, clearly, we see that non American poor clearly can't be held to the same high standard...instead, we require the US government at the behest of corporate interests to leverage political force against another government to act contrary to the interest of the people it governs all to protect current profit margins. Instead of simply allowing them to come up with their own means of production, as is often the stated expectation in this country.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

But the "economic reality" is that a massive increase in the minimum wage will screw the unemployed masses—making it more expensive to employ each person rarely means more people wind up employed—and won't do much for their underpaid brethren in the long term anyway.

When it comes time for Hanes to decide whether to build that second (or third or fourth) factory in Haiti, the extra $12.5 million a year (by CJR's calculations) that the Haitian government tried to extract from their firm will be on the minds of the executives and shareholders.

The question is never whether a company can "afford" to increase worker salaries. The question is whether the world's skivvies- and dungarees-makers will choose to keep doing business in Haiti. That's something the Obama administration gets, even if CJR doesn't...."

Haitian Underwear Workers and Their Small Wages - Hit & Run : Reason.com
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

But the "economic reality" is that a massive increase in the minimum wage will screw the unemployed masses—making it more expensive to employ each person rarely means more people wind up employed—and won't do much for their underpaid brethren in the long term anyway.

When it comes time for Hanes to decide whether to build that second (or third or fourth) factory in Haiti, the extra $12.5 million a year (by CJR's calculations) that the Haitian government tried to extract from their firm will be on the minds of the executives and shareholders.

The question is never whether a company can "afford" to increase worker salaries. The question is whether the world's skivvies- and dungarees-makers will choose to keep doing business in Haiti. That's something the Obama administration gets, even if CJR doesn't...."

Haitian Underwear Workers and Their Small Wages - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Opening premise is historically inaccurate.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

No, it has come out that the US companies didn't lobby for lower wages. The idea that they were angry about the increase in minimum wages and the implication that they would have pulled out of Haiti with a wage increase are lies. Nation Magazine has said as much and claims that their article was misinterpreted.

The State Dept. intervened at the request of the Haitian big shots.


The US congress tried to help the Samoan tuna fishing industry by imposing a minimum wage which resulted in nearly destroying their entire tuna fishing industy. Samoa is holding their breath that the last remaining cannery, Starkist won't pull out. I don't think the Obama administration wants that to happen to Haiti.

The US intervened when many companies threatened to pull out of Haiti because the government of Haiti decided to raise the minimum wage inspite of contracts that companies had with Haiti manufacturing contractors. If the increase in minimum wage had been left to stand...Haiti would have lost hundreds of thousands of jobs and future economic growth at time when their struggling economy can least afford it.

I know it's counter intuitive to western ideals...but in trying to help a poor country...many NGOs and do gooders end up hurting it more. So in this case, I think the Obama administration did the right thing in trying to keep the companies that can provide jobs for Haiti, in Haiti. If he hadn't there would be more poverty, not less.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Opening premise is historically inaccurate.

Raising the minimum wage nearly killed off the American Samoan fishing industry and their economy....

"...A report last year by the U.S. Government Accountability Office said employment in American Samoa has declined because of the minimum wage increases that began in 2007. The 142-page report said the decrease in employment was a result of losing a tuna cannery in American Samoa. Employers blamed the minimum wage increase for layoffs, work hour reductions and hiring freezes....."

Congress OKs American Samoa minimum wage freeze - Boston.com
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

You made a claim, now back it up.

And you made a silly implication. My statement requires no specific backing when it is simple economics and common sense.

But since you are only going to accuse me of not "backing my claim" then here you go:
Haiti Two Years Later: Businesses that Help Rebuild a Country | Corporate Citizenship Center
Haiti: A Bright Business Horizon | Corporate Citizenship Center

Heineken, Accenture, and Digicel are a few non-American examples.

I think the sky is blue too. Want me to provide evidence to back that up?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

How do you propose the Haitians become more self suffcient without any jobs or outside investment at all?

They can start by changing their tax system. Cities/states/countries like Johannesburg, California, Canada, and Alaska saw economic success when they shifted their taxes away from wages and capital and replaced them with land/resource dues (LVT). Instead of the wealth being funneled to a select few, it can go to a citizens dividend fund so the citizens can share the wealth of their nation. The natural result will be lower costs, which will allow the Haitians to either start their own businesses or be self sufficient on their own land.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

The US is not an under developed country with 50% illiteracy rate and 40% unemployment. So no, I am not against raising the minium wage in the US ....nor I'm not against raising it in Haiti when their economy can sustain it like ours can.


As I suspected you are defending a lib on the Haiti issue while your true belief is that there should be a minimum wage.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

As I suspected you are defending a lib on the Haiti issue while your true belief is that there should be a minimum wage.
As usual you're up in the night.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

As usual you bend over far enough to break the average back to defend a dem on any issue even though you really disagree with them.

Sorta like you twisting yourself into a wad to wipe the ass of anyone who agrees with you and doesn't bath?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Raising the minimum wage nearly killed off the American Samoan fishing industry and their economy....

A niche industry, and your "evidence" cited is from '07, which was just great times for us all.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Hanes will find a place to make their goods at the price they want whether you like it or not. If you want people to stay out of work, then carry on.

You never answered the question. Does this justify?
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

If we went the way you want it'd be even worse.

Increasing wages which leads to increased standard of living is "worse"?!?!?:shock:
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Without jobs, there is no economic growth. Haiti desperately needs jobs and if it is the choice between low paying jobs or no jobs at all, I think they would prefer the low wage jobs. Almost every emerging country starts out with low paying jobs to attract business. Today many of those same emerging countries economies are now enjoying ecomonic growth that is outpacing the US....so much so they are buying US debt. One could say the US works for them now.

Still does not answer the question.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

Increasing wages which leads to increased standard of living is "worse"?!?!?:shock:

You dontbwant increased sol, you want everyone equal.
 
Re: WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would St

You dontbwant increased sol, you want everyone equal.

No i dont. But thanks for not answering the question...
 
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