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Nato alarm as woman minister urges Putin to invade her country

Seriously tho, I don't understand how the pro-Russian people in that strip of land got to be sandwiched between a pro-Romanian Moldova and a pro-Western part of Ukraine. I would appreciate it if someone could shed light on this.
 
apdst said:
Good luck with that one!



NATO can't go up against Russia without The United States and our *****-ass president has already made it very clear that he won't deploy American forces.



His good sense is going to tell him that no one is going to stop him...lol!!!
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Do you think we should go to war with Russia over Moldova?
 
Deuce said:
Do you think we should go to war with Russia over Moldova?
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Do you think we should do nothing and encourage Russia to expand into western Europe?
 
spud_meister said:
Why is it OK for the US to determine the affairs of other nations, but not Russia?
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There are about 30 million+ reasons why Russia shouldn't be shaping the world scene. Study Russia's history and you'll see what I mean.
 
apdst said:
There are about 30 million+ reasons why Russia shouldn't be shaping the world scene. Study Russia's history and you'll see what I mean.
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While I agree that Russia should not be shaping the world scene, I would say that the same is true of the US. And there are good reasons why that is the case. We need to focus more on minding our own business and staying out of others affairs. We had no good reason to be so deeply involved in Ukraine in the first place. If that's anyone's business, it's more of a European affair. Let the Europeans worry about who is going to be in the EU.

But having said that, we are in it now, at least with regards to Russia and Ukraine. And we have to let Putin and others know that there is a limit. I think the limited sanctions that were imposed were the proper, calibrated response to make. What everyone should do now, is calm down and let things cool off. Then down the road we should attempt to mend fences and get back to trying to work with Russia to create a more harmonious world.

I thought about this. The Russians brought this upon themselves. Specifically Gorbachev was naive enough to believe in all that "new thinking" stuff. There is no new thinking. The old thinking is still in place. What is that old thinking? It can be summarized as follows:

"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

Hell, a Greek guy figured that out a long, long time ago. Ain't nothing changed since.
 
Putin has a hot wife, no need to get involved with another. But what the heck.
 
MildSteel said:
While I agree that Russia should not be shaping the world scene, I would say that the same is true of the US. And there are good reasons why that is the case. We need to focus more on minding our own business and staying out of others affairs. We had no good reason to be so deeply involved in Ukraine in the first place. If that's anyone's business, it's more of a European affair. Let the Europeans worry about who is going to be in the EU.

But having said that, we are in it now, at least with regards to Russia and Ukraine. And we have to let Putin and others know that there is a limit. I think the limited sanctions that were imposed were the proper, calibrated response to make. What everyone should do now, is calm down and let things cool off. Then down the road we should attempt to mend fences and get back to trying to work with Russia to create a more harmonious world.

I thought about this. The Russians brought this upon themselves. Specifically Gorbachev was naive enough to believe in all that "new thinking" stuff. There is no new thinking. The old thinking is still in place. What is that old thinking? It can be summarized as follows:

"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

Hell, a Greek guy figured that out a long, long time ago. Ain't nothing changed since.
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If everyone minded their own business, you would be onto something. However, there are some really bad people in the world--Nazis, Communists, Jihadists--who aren't and we can't sit back and do nothing while they force their ideology on other countries.

Had Hitler confinded National Socialism to Germany, WW2 would have never happened.
 
apdst said:
If everyone minded their own business, you would be onto something. However, there are some really bad people in the world--Nazis, Communists, Jihadists--who aren't and we can't sit back and do nothing while they force their ideology on other countries.

Had Hitler confinded National Socialism to Germany, WW2 would have never happened.
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The problem with this type of thinking is that where to you draw the line. One person's idea of what is bad is another person's idea of what is good. For example, do we invade a country to force it to give homosexuals equal rights? Do we invade a country to force it to stop teaching homosexuality in schools? That's the kind of stuff you get into. People have a tendency to get carried away with self righteous crusades in affairs that it would be better left to people of an area to sort out for themselves.
 
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MildSteel said:
The problem with this type of thinking is that where to you draw the line. One person's idea of what is bad is another person's idea of what is good. For example, do we invade a country to force it to give homosexuals equal rights? Do we invade a country to force it to stop teaching homosexuality in schools? That's the kind of stuff you get into. People have a tendency to get carried away with self righteous crusades in affairs that it would be better left to people of an area to sort out for themselves.
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Your response makes no sense.
 
apdst said:
Your response makes no sense.
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It makes sense because it means that calls to defend the world against "bad" guys need to be treated with care. To be more specific, there is a need to differentiate between "bad" as meaning dangerous in an objective sense, or "bad" as meaning a mere distaste for the behavior, psychological characteristics, and/or ideological leanings of someone else. For example, take Jean Bertrand Aristide of Haiti. Did the US oppose him because he was truly "bad" in the sense of posing an unusual degree of imminent threat to ourselves or others, or was he "bad" simply because of his ideological leanings? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
 
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MildSteel said:
It makes sense because it means that calls to defend the world against "bad" guys need to be treated with care. To be more specific, there is a need to differentiate between "bad" as meaning dangerous in an objective sense, or "bad" as meaning a mere distaste for the behavior, psychological characteristics, and/or ideological leanings of someone else. For example, take Jean Bertrand Aristide of Haiti. Did the US oppose him because he was truly "bad" in the sense of posing an unusual degree of imminent threat to ourselves or others, or was he "bad" simply because of his ideological leanings? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
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Well, National Socialism was bad and so is Communism. When an ideology appears to cause a threat to our way of life, he needs to be dealt with.
 
apdst said:
Well, National Socialism was bad and so is Communism. When an ideology appears to cause a threat to our way of life, he needs to be dealt with.
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I realize you feel that way, but what you have just said directly contradicts the notion that people should have the freedom to make up their own minds. Unless an ideology is directly and explicitly advocating persons to engage in physical or psychological violence against others, people have a right to hear it and make up their minds for themselves. As far as I'm concerned, KKK ideology is bad. But that's what some believe and I'm not going to advocate terminating them for believing in it. Now if they start advocating and engaging in burning people's houses down and such activity, then's it's time to put a stop to it.
 
I'm willing to bet the lovely Minister was being euphemistic when begging Putin to "invade her country".
 
My only comment on that lady is WOW! Seriously though at this point Putin is going to do exactly what Putin wants to do and the rest of the world including the US is going to sit idly by and watch. It is the 40's all over again and we can only hope Putin isn't Hitler part two.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Seriously though at this point Putin is going to do exactly what Putin wants to do and the rest of the world including the US is going to sit idly by and watch.
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Did you hear about the sanctions that were imposed on Russia and Visa and Mastercard denying services to customers of Bank Rossiya? I don't think that's sitting idly by and doing nothing.
 
MildSteel said:
Did you hear about the sanctions that were imposed on Russia and Visa and Mastercard denying services to customers of Bank Rossiya? I don't think that's sitting idly by and doing nothing.
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That is going to stop a new Hitler? You seriously said that? That is for show and is worse than doing nothing, it tells Putin how weak we really are and makes us look impotent to the point that it just encourages Putin.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
That is going to stop a new Hitler? You seriously said that? That is for show and is worse than doing nothing, it tells Putin how weak we really are and makes us look impotent to the point that it just encourages Putin.
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I can't believe you believe Hillary Clinton when she says Putin is Hitler. Don't believe everything that politicians say. Much of it is designed to appeal to voters emotions so that they can get votes. Not only that, but a bank being cut out of the US financial system, is not something that's done for show. That's serious stuff.

But speaking of Hitler, here's the type of people that we are helping come to power in the Ukraine. Note how one person says openly that they want Ukraine to not be exactly like Hitler, but a little bit like that.



Over and above that, Yulia Tymoshenko, in a taped phone call was allegedly heard to say that Ukraine's 8 million Russians should be nuked. Here she is pictured with the Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.

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Looks to me like we may be supporting people who are like Hitler.
 
MildSteel said:
I can't believe you believe Hillary Clinton when she says Putin is Hitler. Don't believe everything that politicians say. Much of it is designed to appeal to voters emotions so that they can get votes. Not only that, but a bank being cut out of the US financial system, is not something that's done for show. That's serious stuff.

But speaking of Hitler, here's the type of people that we are helping come to power in the Ukraine. Note how one person says openly that they want Ukraine to not be exactly like Hitler, but a little bit like that.



Over and above that, Yulia Tymoshenko, in a taped phone call was allegedly heard to say that Ukraine's 8 million Russians should be nuked. Here she is pictured with the Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.

02A5F04F-6C42-4476-A66B-49695C3EEA97_w640_r1_s_cx0_cy4_cw0.jpg


Looks to me like we may be supporting people who are like Hitler.
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Putin may be on the verge of taking over one country after another just as Hitler did. I never compared their politics just their military adventurism.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Putin may be on the verge of taking over one country after another just as Hitler did. I never compared their politics just their military adventurism.
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What Putin did in Crimea was done because Russia's back was being pushed against the wall. Putin realized that he lost Ukraine and was merely trying to salvage what he could to keep Russia from being run into the dirt by NATO. That's not a conquering Hitler.

That said, let's see what he does. If he starts actually acting like Hitler, then put the label on him. Up until now, Putin has done what any Russian nationalist with pride in their country would have done.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
That is going to stop a new Hitler? You seriously said that? That is for show and is worse than doing nothing, it tells Putin how weak we really are and makes us look impotent to the point that it just encourages Putin.
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I think he was ignoring the premise of Puting being a "new Hitler."
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Putin may be on the verge of taking over one country after another just as Hitler did. I never compared their politics just their military adventurism.
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So was Hillary. You two should be besties.
 
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