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Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

Deuce said:
Because voting is the singular fundamental right in any form of democracy, and buying alcohol is not. Any measure to make voting harder should be met with extreme skepticism and scrutiny.

When you do this with voter ID laws, you start to see the real motivation.
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If you are really a U.S Citizen, you will have a photo ID. It's not that much to ask for someone to provide one before they vote.
 
mike2810 said:
Correct.

Yet, funny how some don't complain to show id for trivial items, but when it comes to voting, heck one should not have to prove they are who they say they are.
Got it.:mrgreen:

Let me ask you. If you already have an id what is the issue to show it when you vote?
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Of course I have...so does/did everyone else that was registared lawfully to vote.

Mine for 50+ years is called a Birth certificate. I used that all my life to prove whom I said I was...guess what? Everyone use to accept that a lawful ID.

Not any more.
 
Deuce said:
Because voting is the singular fundamental right in any form of democracy, and buying alcohol is not. Any measure to make voting harder should be met with extreme skepticism and scrutiny.

When you do this with voter ID laws, you start to see the real motivation.
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The 'fear' generated from voters having to produce an actual ID is amazing.
 
danielpalos said:
If it is required for voting, it should be free, if necessary.
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I believe you will find most if not all of those states provide the free of charge. Dont worry though...there will I'm sure be some other ridiculous objection you can find.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mr5t8K-uvQ

Damnit :doh This is going to open the door for voter suppression. Here in KS we have over 15,000 people having their right to vote held up by the Secretary of State now this is just going to spread. Essentially its trying to solve a problem, where there is no problem. Its being used as a political tool by the GOP.
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If you cant take the small effort required to get a photo id, you gave no business voting.
 
VanceMack said:
I believe you will find most if not all of those states provide the free of charge. Dont worry though...there will I'm sure be some other ridiculous objection you can find.
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The only problem I have is that it is the individual states mandating this change...not the electorate as a whole or even the federal government.

The states should not impede in any way my constitutionlly protected right to vote...no more than the individual states should ever restrict a citizen's constituionally protected right to bear arms.
 
1750Texan said:
The only problem I have is that it is the individual states mandating this change...not the electorate as a whole or even the federal government.

The states should not impede in any way my constitutionlly protected right to vote...no more than the individual states should ever restrict a citizen's constituionally protected right to bear arms.
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The states arent impeding your constitutional right to vote. They are requiring you flash your ID card and show that you are in fact who you say you are in order to vote. They are impeding ANYONES right to walk up and claim they are some schmuck off the street, register on the spot, and caste a ballot. They are requiring that you identify that you ARE who in fact you say you are. And the absolute fact is that there isnt a soul in this country that is walking up to vote legally that should be even a little bit concerned about this legislation. The only people invested in preventing it are those invested in preserving the opportunity for fraud.
 
1750Texan said:
The states should not impede in any way my constitutionlly protected right to vote...no more than the individual states should ever restrict a citizen's constituionally protected right to bear arms.
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Let's make a deal. The same process for both. Want to buy a gun? Show that you're a citizen. Next show that you're not a felon. Period. That's it. Nothing else. Same with voting. Do you have a restraining order from your ex-wife? No problem, you can still vote and buy a gun. Are you mentally ill? No problem, you can still vote and buy a gun.
 
VanceMack said:
The 'fear' generated from voters having to produce an actual ID is amazing.
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It's not the fear of producing ID, it's the fear of not being able to vote 3 times and realizing that this spells doom for the Democrats.
 
RiverDad said:
Let's make a deal. The same process for both. Want to buy a gun? Show that you're a citizen. Next show that you're not a felon. Period. That's it. Nothing else. Same with voting. Do you have a restraining order from your ex-wife? No problem, you can still vote and buy a gun. Are you mentally ill? No problem, you can still vote and buy a gun.
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I don't think there is a restriction on a lawful resident non-citizen to buy a firearm.

The second amendment does not encompass the right to bear arms to a firearm purchase only. One can be in possesion of an arm and never have "purchased" it.

I can purchase a constitutionally protected arm...Knunchucks, without ever showing any ID or purchasing any CC licence.
 
danielpalos said:
I don't resort to special pleading. In Any Case, it is about Government by We the People. Any questions?
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Sure, is English your first language?
 
TeleKat said:
If you are really a U.S Citizen, you will have a photo ID. It's not that much to ask for someone to provide one before they vote.
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A lot of non citizens also have valid photo IDs. Having a drivers license is not restricted to citizens.

I've noticed that nobody wants to address that because it's not a talking point.
 
rocket88 said:
But a photo ID is not proof of citizenship. Proof of identity perhaps (though there is such a thing as fake ID....). Proving your citizenship is an entirely different standard. You'd have to bring a birth certificate or naturalization papers and hope it's enough. All it takes is a skeptical election worker, and you don't vote ("Well Mr. Rodriguez, if that is your real name, while this piece of paper says you were born in California, it doesn't have a raised seal....").
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Voters are vetted in the registration process. All voting should require is a registration card and a picture ID proving that the person with the registration card is who he says he is. Using this system, there is no subjectivity on the part of poll workers. Prove you are eligible to vote, show who you are and vote.

It would seem to me that people who oppose this believe the best system is to just go from polling place to polling place casting votes with impunity. I can't think of a worse thing to happen in a democracy dependent on the rule of law.
 
rocket88 said:
A lot of non citizens also have valid photo IDs. Having a drivers license is not restricted to citizens.

I've noticed that nobody wants to address that because it's not a talking point.
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The solution to that problem is simple. It's an administrative fix. When the Bureau of Driving Licensing examines your documents and notices that you are not a citizen, they simply issue you a Non-Citizen Driver's License.
 
RiverDad said:
The solution to that problem is simple. It's an administrative fix. When the Bureau of Driving Licensing examines your documents and notices that you are not a citizen, they simply issue you a Non-Citizen Driver's License.
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Sure, but they'll have to go back and re-issue everyone's DL for that reason only. That's fine if that's what they do, but that's going to cost a few dollars.
 
sawdust said:
Voters are vetted in the registration process. All voting should require is a registration card and a picture ID proving that the person with the registration card is who he says he is. Using this system, there is no subjectivity on the part of poll workers. Prove you are eligible to vote, show who you are and vote.
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Which doesn't have anything to do with getting a photo ID. It's very easy for a legal alien to get a valid photo ID.

It would seem to me that people who oppose this believe the best system is to just go from polling place to polling place casting votes with impunity. I can't think of a worse thing to happen in a democracy dependent on the rule of law.
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It seems to me that the people who like the ID requirement think it will fix everything that's wrong. Nobody wants to talk about how Republicans game the system. Which they do, I assure you.

The ID requirement fixes one very small part of the election system. This is like having 4 flat tires and fixing the radio.
 
rocket88 said:
Sure, but they'll have to go back and re-issue everyone's DL for that reason only. That's fine if that's what they do, but that's going to cost a few dollars.
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There's also the immediate quick fix. DMV compiles a list of all non-citizen drivers and puts it into a database. Compare that database to the voter database. Any new registrations get checked against that database.
 
RiverDad said:
It's not the fear of producing ID, it's the fear of not being able to vote 3 times and realizing that this spells doom for the Democrats.
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If we are being honest...I dont think they fear anything. I think it is just another excuse to be able to cry RACISM!!! JIM CROW!!! AUUUUUGHG!!!! OHMIGAWDWEREALLGONNADIE!!!
 
RiverDad said:
There's also the immediate quick fix. DMV compiles a list of all non-citizen drivers and puts it into a database. Compare that database to the voter database. Any new registrations get checked against that database.
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Assuming they have that information, which they may not if they weren't required to keep it.
 
rocket88 said:
Which doesn't have anything to do with getting a photo ID. It's very easy for a legal alien to get a valid photo ID.



It seems to me that the people who like the ID requirement think it will fix everything that's wrong. Nobody wants to talk about how Republicans game the system. Which they do, I assure you.

The ID requirement fixes one very small part of the election system. This is like having 4 flat tires and fixing the radio.
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Well, at least the radio works.

Please tell me how you think voting should work. Do you think everyone should be able to vote regardless of their eligibility? Should we import thousands of people to vote in our elections from Pakistan or Belgium? Should we let everyone who wants to vote regardless of citizenship, or the status of their civil rights (felons), age (under 18)? It's really easy to be a critic. How should this work in your view? How should you prove you are eligible and how should you prove that you are who you say?
 
danielpalos said:
Does it matter, if you have no valid arguments for rebuttal?
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It doesn't matter although sometimes you are a little hard to understand. Please don't take offense, I mean none. I only speak one language fluently and if English is not your first language you're doing better than I.

With respect to the rebuttal, say something and I'll rebut it.
 
sawdust said:
Well, at least the radio works.

Please tell me how you think voting should work. Do you think everyone should be able to vote regardless of their eligibility? Should we import thousands of people to vote in our elections from Pakistan or Belgium? Should we let everyone who wants to vote regardless of citizenship, or the status of their civil rights (felons), age (under 18)? It's really easy to be a critic. How should this work in your view? How should you prove you are eligible and how should you prove that you are who you say?
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You could say the radio works, but personally I'd fix the tire problem first, then worry about the radio.

A person should prove who they are, and their eligibility when they register to vote. If you do that at the polling place, then you do it there. Otherwise you do it when registering. It shouldn't all be done in line while waiting to vote. If a person is already registered it should be quick and easy instead of holding up regular law abiding citizens for no reason. If you want to require an ID, fine. I don't really have a problem with that, but it's a cosmetic fix.
 
sawdust said:
It doesn't matter although sometimes you are a little hard to understand. Please don't take offense, I mean none. I only speak one language fluently and if English is not your first language you're doing better than I.

With respect to the rebuttal, say something and I'll rebut it.
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It was about Socialism beginning with a social contract.

In Any Case, it is about Government by We the People.
 
rocket88 said:
You could say the radio works, but personally I'd fix the tire problem first, then worry about the radio.

A person should prove who they are, and their eligibility when they register to vote. If you do that at the polling place, then you do it there. Otherwise you do it when registering. It shouldn't all be done in line while waiting to vote. If a person is already registered it should be quick and easy instead of holding up regular law abiding citizens for no reason. If you want to require an ID, fine. I don't really have a problem with that, but it's a cosmetic fix.
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A person should prove who they are, and their eligibility when they register to vote.
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Ok, so I could register as sawdust? How many other names could I use?

If you do that at the polling place, then you do it there. It shouldn't all be done in line while waiting to vote.
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Which is it? Is it at the polling place or not in line in the polling place. I'm confused as I suspect you might be.

Otherwise you do it when registering.
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Do what? Prove who you are? How should we be required to do that?

If a person is already registered it should be quick and easy instead of holding up regular law abiding citizens for no reason.
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Something we agree on. That's why registrars require registration prior to the day of the vote.

If you want to require an ID, fine. I don't really have a problem with that, but it's a cosmetic fix.
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Allrighty then, what the hell are we arguing about?
 
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