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Thread: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    A lot of non citizens also have valid photo IDs. Having a drivers license is not restricted to citizens.

    I've noticed that nobody wants to address that because it's not a talking point.
    Drivers licenses are listed to non-resident aliens. ID cards are issued to non resident aliens. They have very clear markings on them such as distinctive colored stripes or the words DRIVING PRIVILEGES ONLY or NOT FOR FEDERAL IDENTIFICATION on them. You are grasping.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Why is it such an incredible hardship for Liberals to comply with the law in order to vote?

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It's not like this everywhere, but here you can register at the polling place on election day. So it is entirely possible to not be preregistered. You do have to prove that you reside in the precinct in which you register. I assume it would be hard to register under any fake name or internet handle, unless you had ID proving it to be your legal name.

    It's imperfect. Any system will be. If you're really intent on voting more than once, you're going to find a way to do it. Just like if you're really intent on shooting up a McDonald's, no amount of gun control will stop you. But...the amount of effort it would take to do this on a level that it would seriously affect an election requires resources and time that nobody has on their own, unless they work for the Democratic or Republican parties. The fact that the Republican party is all-in on this doesn't tell me that they don't cheat. It tells me that they're better at it, or have more effective methods.
    I live in Florida. All I can say to you is Bush Gore. You are evidently a Democrat which is why you don't trust Republicans. I have watched the voting abuse of groups like ACORN and fake Tea Party candidates designed to siphon Republicans and don't particularly trust Democrats. I think that anything that can be done to make the vote honest is a good thing and I think that identification is important. To say that a system of proper identification is voter suppression is just bizarre.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Why is it such an incredible hardship for Liberals to comply with the law in order to vote?
    Why is it such an incredible hardship for Conservatives to comply with the law in order in order to be legal to it; immigration has not been a States' right since 1808.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes. So give me a security measure that doesn't prevent legitimate citizens from voting, particularly a measure that doesn't conveniently do so to people who vote for your opponent, and we'll talk. I've offered my solution to it, right-wingers rarely agree to it.
    Government is in the business of issuing ID for all kinds of reasons - one recognized for voting doesn't seem so onerous.

    Here's an idea - why not start with citizens who file income tax returns, as we do here in Canada - if you file a return, you can check a box that automatically registers you with all federal, provincial, and municipal election commissions. If you don't do it in the US, why not - if you do, then seems like only those not contributing to the upkeep of society aren't automatically registered.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I live in Florida. All I can say to you is Bush Gore. You are evidently a Democrat which is why you don't trust Republicans. I have watched the voting abuse of groups like ACORN and fake Tea Party candidates designed to siphon Republicans and don't particularly trust Democrats. I think that anything that can be done to make the vote honest is a good thing and I think that identification is important. To say that a system of proper identification is voter suppression is just bizarre.
    I don't trust either party. What's disturbing is that you apparently do trust Republicans, who are just as out to cheat the system as anyone. Both parties make what I think is an erroneous assumption that Voter ID laws will hurt Democrats. That's why Republicans are in favor of it, and that's why Democrats are against it. It is intended to suppress Democratic votes - and it's not a race thing or any of the other talking points - the assumption is basically out there that it would help one party and hurt the other party. Obviously, less Democratic votes is something the Republicans would like to see.

    Given that it's a cosmetic change with what I think would be almost negligible impact, I can't justify the government making laws about it. You're the "libertarian," but you trust Republicans and want the government making ineffective laws to affect our lives and rights?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I don't trust either party. What's disturbing is that you apparently do trust Republicans, who are just as out to cheat the system as anyone. Both parties make what I think is an erroneous assumption that Voter ID laws will hurt Democrats. That's why Republicans are in favor of it, and that's why Democrats are against it. It is intended to suppress Democratic votes - and it's not a race thing or any of the other talking points - the assumption is basically out there that it would help one party and hurt the other party. Obviously, less Democratic votes is something the Republicans would like to see.

    Given that it's a cosmetic change with what I think would be almost negligible impact, I can't justify the government making laws about it. You're the "libertarian," but you trust Republicans and want the government making ineffective laws to affect our lives and rights?
    It's just that as I read the news if there are articles which call into question voting practices, it's generally involving Democrats. Registration and proof of identity are favored by Republicans and opposed by Democrats. What does this lead me to believe? With respect to the balance of government I agree with you that neither party represents the limited government that I prefer. Democrats favor big government and central planing as a matter of policy, Republicans just give lip service to limited government but when it comes to policy the only difference between the parties is that they both want government to expand. Democrats want an expanding welfare state, Republicans want an expanding military industrial complex. Not much of a choice but on voting, Republican initiatives make more sense to me.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Tell the poor souls not being allowed to vote now that Gipper said "lo siento".

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Government is in the business of issuing ID for all kinds of reasons - one recognized for voting doesn't seem so onerous.

    Here's an idea - why not start with citizens who file income tax returns, as we do here in Canada - if you file a return, you can check a box that automatically registers you with all federal, provincial, and municipal election commissions. If you don't do it in the US, why not - if you do, then seems like only those not contributing to the upkeep of society aren't automatically registered.
    Non citizens are required to file Income taxes in the US...even illegal aliens. They are given a Tax Indentification Number. Permenant residents are not citizens and are required to have SSnumbers


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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Non citizens are required to file Income taxes in the US...even illegal aliens. They are given a Tax Indentification Number. Permenant residents are not citizens and are required to have SSnumbers
    You're not required to detail your residence of birth on income tax filings in the US? You're telling me that illegal aliens in the US file income tax returns and yet by some accounts there are anywhere between 10 and 20 million illegal aliens "hiding in the shadows" in the US. Maybe the first order of business for immigration reform would be for the IRS to go after all those illegal alien income tax filers and report them to law enforcement.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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