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Thread: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Sure, is English your first language?
    Does it matter, if you have no valid arguments for rebuttal?

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Does it matter, if you have no valid arguments for rebuttal?
    It doesn't matter although sometimes you are a little hard to understand. Please don't take offense, I mean none. I only speak one language fluently and if English is not your first language you're doing better than I.

    With respect to the rebuttal, say something and I'll rebut it.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Well, at least the radio works.

    Please tell me how you think voting should work. Do you think everyone should be able to vote regardless of their eligibility? Should we import thousands of people to vote in our elections from Pakistan or Belgium? Should we let everyone who wants to vote regardless of citizenship, or the status of their civil rights (felons), age (under 18)? It's really easy to be a critic. How should this work in your view? How should you prove you are eligible and how should you prove that you are who you say?
    You could say the radio works, but personally I'd fix the tire problem first, then worry about the radio.

    A person should prove who they are, and their eligibility when they register to vote. If you do that at the polling place, then you do it there. Otherwise you do it when registering. It shouldn't all be done in line while waiting to vote. If a person is already registered it should be quick and easy instead of holding up regular law abiding citizens for no reason. If you want to require an ID, fine. I don't really have a problem with that, but it's a cosmetic fix.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    It doesn't matter although sometimes you are a little hard to understand. Please don't take offense, I mean none. I only speak one language fluently and if English is not your first language you're doing better than I.

    With respect to the rebuttal, say something and I'll rebut it.
    It was about Socialism beginning with a social contract.

    In Any Case, it is about Government by We the People.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    You could say the radio works, but personally I'd fix the tire problem first, then worry about the radio.

    A person should prove who they are, and their eligibility when they register to vote. If you do that at the polling place, then you do it there. Otherwise you do it when registering. It shouldn't all be done in line while waiting to vote. If a person is already registered it should be quick and easy instead of holding up regular law abiding citizens for no reason. If you want to require an ID, fine. I don't really have a problem with that, but it's a cosmetic fix.
    A person should prove who they are, and their eligibility when they register to vote.
    Ok, so I could register as sawdust? How many other names could I use?

    If you do that at the polling place, then you do it there. It shouldn't all be done in line while waiting to vote.
    Which is it? Is it at the polling place or not in line in the polling place. I'm confused as I suspect you might be.

    Otherwise you do it when registering.
    Do what? Prove who you are? How should we be required to do that?

    If a person is already registered it should be quick and easy instead of holding up regular law abiding citizens for no reason.
    Something we agree on. That's why registrars require registration prior to the day of the vote.

    If you want to require an ID, fine. I don't really have a problem with that, but it's a cosmetic fix.
    Allrighty then, what the hell are we arguing about?
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    It was about Socialism beginning with a social contract.

    In Any Case, it is about Government by We the People.
    Socialism is primarily an economic system. All systems in society begin with a social contract. Capitalism begins with a social contract which is the sanctity of private property and the rule of law. All capitalistic societies contain a degree of socialism.

    What is about government by we the people?
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Socialism is primarily an economic system. All systems in society begin with a social contract. Capitalism begins with a social contract which is the sanctity of private property and the rule of law. All capitalistic societies contain a degree of socialism.

    What is about government by we the people?
    Capitalism is primarily an economic system. Socialism includes Government.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You're partially correct - voting is perhaps the singular fundemental right of "every citizen" in any form of democracy. Surely, in order that the state/republic doesn't abuse or devalue this fundemental right of citizenship you hold, you should demand that only citizens exercise that fundemental right - correct?
    Yes. So give me a security measure that doesn't prevent legitimate citizens from voting, particularly a measure that doesn't conveniently do so to people who vote for your opponent, and we'll talk. I've offered my solution to it, right-wingers rarely agree to it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Ok, so I could register as sawdust? How many other names could I use?



    Which is it? Is it at the polling place or not in line in the polling place. I'm confused as I suspect you might be.



    Do what? Prove who you are? How should we be required to do that?



    Something we agree on. That's why registrars require registration prior to the day of the vote.



    Allrighty then, what the hell are we arguing about?
    It's not like this everywhere, but here you can register at the polling place on election day. So it is entirely possible to not be preregistered. You do have to prove that you reside in the precinct in which you register. I assume it would be hard to register under any fake name or internet handle, unless you had ID proving it to be your legal name.

    It's imperfect. Any system will be. If you're really intent on voting more than once, you're going to find a way to do it. Just like if you're really intent on shooting up a McDonald's, no amount of gun control will stop you. But...the amount of effort it would take to do this on a level that it would seriously affect an election requires resources and time that nobody has on their own, unless they work for the Democratic or Republican parties. The fact that the Republican party is all-in on this doesn't tell me that they don't cheat. It tells me that they're better at it, or have more effective methods.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Kansas and Arizona win voter proof-of-citizenship ruling

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It's imperfect. Any system will be.
    From Foreign Policy Magazine:

    For the head of Libya's national election commission, the method by which Americans vote is startling in that it depends so much on trust and the good faith of election officials and voters alike.

    "It's an incredible system," said Nuri K. Elabbar, who traveled to the United States along with election officials from more than 60 countries to observe today's presidential elections as part of a program run by the International Foundation for Electoral Systems (IFES). Your humble Cable guy visited polling places with some of the international officials this morning. Most of them agreed that in their countries, such an open voting system simply would not work. . . .

    The most often noted difference between American elections among the visitors was that in most U.S. states, voters need no identification. Voters can also vote by mail, sometimes online, and there's often no way to know if one person has voted several times under different names, unlike in some Arab countries, where voters ink their fingers when casting their ballots.

    The international visitors also noted that there's no police at U.S. polling stations. In foreign countries, police at polling places are viewed as signs of security; in the United States they are sometimes seen as intimidating. . . .

    In Morocco, the poll workers take the unused ballots outside at the end of the night and burn them, McCormick said. In Russia, unused ballots are piled up and a poll worker drives a spike though the pile with a hammer. In The Gambia, a country in West Africa, each voter is given exactly one marble, which they place in one of the large marble collecting jars that are set up for each candidate.

    "The polls workers are listening because when the marble goes into the jar, there's a ding. And if there are two dings, maybe somebody came in with extra marbles in their pocket, so they call the police," she said.

    So when Republicans are screaming about how we don't trust Democrats to play fair we're basically aligned with most every other nation on the Earth in terms of trying to preserve the integrity of elections.

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