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Thread: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

  1. #51
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And you'd be in favor of Obama putting troops in Ukraine, troops that would certainly clash with Russian troops, and then it would be on. FYI, we wouldn't be pushing Putin around like the weak sickly kids in class that we usually puff our chest out and take on like Hussein, Gaddafi, etc.
    If Putin ordered an attack on American troops the powers of Russia would remove Putin very quickly.

    Have you ever read a history book -as in ever?

    The entire history since the end of WWII is that if Russia puts troops somewhere, it stops us from doing anything. If we put troops anywhere it stops Russia from doing anything.

    Your messages are Chicken Little messages: "The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Run! Run and hide!"

    You don't know how to play poker, do you? Unless you have an ace high royal flush you always would fold.

  2. #52
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Apparently, according to you, your side doesn't believe in honouring your treaty commitments. Hopefully/fortunately, there are at least some honorable men left in the Democrat party in America.
    To be factual, there is no treaty agreement with Ukraine to offer defensive capabilities. There is a memo from Ukraine to the UN Security Council and in that memo Ukraine asks that the UN Security Council members request aid for Ukraine.

    (H/T to mac for posting this link in a different thread) Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994 - Council on Foreign Relations
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #53
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There is only one thing that really matters: The treaty for the nuclear disarmaments treaty with the Ukraine - which incredibly gave up the 3rd largest nuclear weapons arsenal in the world - wasn't worth the cost of the paper it was written on.

    Every country in the world now knows this. Without nuclear weapons they are subject to invasion by any major power regardless of any agreement with that major power. Treaties and agreements to not obtain nuclear weapons are nothing but pre-invasion trickery.
    Your point is fair, about the treaty, but do you really think Ukrainian nuclear weapons would have caused Russia to pause before taking over Crimea? Nuclear weapons only really assure mutual destruction. Would the Ukrainian government/people launch a strike that would assure their complete destruction? I don't think so. Nuclear weapons, without the military force to protect your sovereign territory, isn't really that great a card to hold unless, of course, your own destruction doesn't matter to you and the zealots who support you, such as those in power in Iran.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    To be factual, there is no treaty agreement with Ukraine to offer defensive capabilities. There is a memo from Ukraine to the UN Security Council and in that memo Ukraine asks that the UN Security Council members request aid for Ukraine.

    (H/T to mac for posting this link in a different thread) Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994 - Council on Foreign Relations
    That may be factual and I agree, but not relevant to the quote of mine that Deuce responded to. He responded to my comment that it will be interesting to see what Obama's posture will be should a member state of NATO be threatened. America clearly has responsibilities within NATO to supply defensive capabilities should a member state be threatened/attacked.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Nothing!...lol! I can't help but wonder if Obama isn't being complicit with Putin.
    It clearly appears to be a done-deal before it happened, and now the President is openly assuring Russia it may take as much or as little of their former Eastern bloc back that they think would be to their financial benefit to do so. We want the resources of countries to the South of Russia.

    The USA and Russia are again dividing up the world by juxtipositioning against each other. Each country must side with one of us allowing us control, or the other will attack it. Very profitable way to divide up weak countries.

    The problem - setting aside ethics - is that Obama doesn't have to make himself look like a weak, incompetent clown in playing his role for his half of it.

    Obama did not have to announce that Russia can have as much of the Ukraine as they want - for which Russia can decide what pieces of Ukraine would be profitable and not taking any portion that would be a money loser - meaning poor and no significant resources. Russia can strip as much of Eastern Europe as they want. In return, We will take what we want to the South of Russia.

    Putin's been clear on this. We leave them alone to take what they want and they'll leave us alone to take what we want.

    Doesn't ANYONE realize how profitable the Cold War was in terms of controlling and ripping off other countries? NO ONE reads history books anymore?

    All the talk in the media is just a dog-and-pony show, and as we can see everyone on the forum is falling for it. Obama doesn't have to play his role so embarrassing for our country and it weakens our half of the deal. What he is SUPPOSE TO DO is shake his fist and declare we MUST put our military and make alliances with those other countries WE want - to which Russia says then they must take more territory too to defend them against us. Obama's acting role in this is very poor.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Hi MMC - yes, Russia is in position now to stretch the boundaries of acceptible behaviour since no one seems to be able to stop him so far. I do think, however, that Estonia and other places with ethnic Russians may be a bridge too far in that the NATO alliance defense treaties kick in and I'm not sure even Putin wants to tempt that fate. While there's no harm evident to the citizens of Russia, they will support Putin in these kinds of moves - if it comes to imminent war, I think Putin would be deposed by those around him before it got that far.
    So far CJ.....Jane Security and others are saying he has made the correct moves with what he knew he could get away with. Also same deal with know what we will do by the steps. So that's why he has stayed ahead. But now for the Sanctions to really work.....that would mean it would affect everyone.



    According to one independent analysis being studied by the Kremlin and reviewed by The Daily Beast, such measures could be a drag on the Russian economy over time and an embarrassment for the Russian government, but would only be an “inconvenience” for the Russian economy in the near term. More drastic measures would include going after Russia’s ability to interact in global financial markets, which the analysis calls “disruptive,” and restrictions on Russian energy exports or trade sanctions, which the analysis says would be “catastrophic.

    The analysis by Macro-Advisory, an investment firm operating in Russia, predicts that the West, especially European countries, will not move to impose “disruptive” or “catastrophic” sanctions on Russia until Putin crosses another red line, such as the outright invasion of Ukraine.

    The key risk [for Russia] is Stage 3, i.e. a ban or restrictions on Russia’s interaction in global financial markets and/or any selected restrictions on trade or investment with Russia,” the report stated. “Investors assume that Stage 4 [catastrophic] sanctions are not yet on the agenda simply because these would also have a negative contagion to several EU countries, and many high-profile companies, as well as indirectly on the global economy.”.....snip~

    U.S. Push For Natural Gas Exports To Help Ukraine Won't Actually Help Ukraine

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...ukraine-3.html

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Obama.jpg"Military" to this guy starts and stops with Gomer Pyle
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Obama.jpg"Military" to this guy starts and stops with Gomer Pyle
    This may be the stupidest post of the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I wouldn't go that far - even though I believe Obama is, as the Texans say, "all hat, no cattle", there's really not much that American military power can do in Crimea and in the Ukraine. There may be failures that led to this point, but as it stands now the onus is on the EU, most directly threatened, and on the NATO alliance, should Russia foolishly advance further.

    I'd like to see NATO come up with a strong posture/statement with a clear red line for them as an alliance. As a member country here in Canada, I believe that any commitment NATO makes to military and/or other action will have consequences and not just be idle threats.
    What I'm seeing from most folks, is the belief that the only two options are complete impotency and total war and no other options in between. I'm not sure why that is, but it's obviously the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    Why would anyone think we should get involved militarily?
    Because the two baddest kids on the block always end up in the street facing off, eventually.

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