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Thread: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Tell me how can garentee ukraines sovereignty without suffering the entire region going up in flames?
    LOL! You think "the entire region going up in flames" HELPS Russia? Its their border, not ours. Eastern Europe turns into a collection of Afghanistans and en thnic chaos. That'd really help out white Russians a whole lot, huh? For the next 2 decades Putin could keep telling Russians that there are whole lot more non-Russian body bags than there are Russian body bags.

    I rather certain Russia would not like it if "the entire region" goes "up in flames." Doesn't leave much for them to try to get but chaos, ruin, expense and death, does it? You always seem to have the risk factors exactly backwards.

    If Russia could make Mexico and Canada "go up in flames" does that help the USA and harm Russia? That seems to be how you think it works. Exactly opposite from reality.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Hi MMC - yes, Russia is in position now to stretch the boundaries of acceptible behaviour since no one seems to be able to stop him so far. I do think, however, that Estonia and other places with ethnic Russians may be a bridge too far in that the NATO alliance defense treaties kick in and I'm not sure even Putin wants to tempt that fate. While there's no harm evident to the citizens of Russia, they will support Putin in these kinds of moves - if it comes to imminent war, I think Putin would be deposed by those around him before it got that far.
    Other than the USA, NATO is a bunch of wimps. "NATO" means the USA acting - after obtaining the other country's permission. But for nuclear weapons, even the greatly reduced Russian military could run over Europe faster than Germany did. Only the USA could defeat Russia in a conventional war.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Thats why, when you're a leader, people have to believe you're going to follow through with your threats. Unfortunately, we don't have a leader for a president; we have a community organizer.
    It seems he doesn't have organizing skills either.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Of course it's not a good idea, but, you don't tell the Russians that military force is, flat out, not an option. That's going to encourage then.
    Because Russia was too dumb to figure that out on their own?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    If Obama made a military threat against Russia most people here would be jumping all over him for not having enough spine to follow through, if he doesn't make a military threat then he's just weak.

    He's simply stating the obvious, Russia knows they aren't about to enter a war with the US and pretending that we may actually use military force would be just plain silly.

    Economics and diplomacy is whats going to beat back Russia, not military threats.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    I'm not advocating military action and have gone on record from the very beginning (actually way before this even started) that Russia was not done with it plans of retaking the satellites back, eventually. Let's face it, if your Putin what better president to do that under than Obama? That said, I do not support war with Russia, but consider this approach. Putin has made many insinuations regarding military force and use in Crimea. All Obama had to do was match that rhetoric, but be prepared to follow through with at least building up. When two powers square off directly like this (In the last 50 years we've mostly fought each other through proxy wars) history tells us that there is usually a build up and then a cooling off phase. Both leaders piss on each other but then stop to wipe it off. When they stop, they start to really think about the consequences of taking serious action. Generally a third party or some other entity offers both a way out where both can look like winners, and the matter begins to die down.

    I'm not sure how Obama can look like a winner here, he's already lost cred so many times, and including this incident that no one really fears him. The matching strategy outlined above would have needed to happen right from the get-go, NOT a month into it, when Russia now has Crimea, and all Obama can muster is sanctioning 11 officials and not inviting Putin to his G7 party.. Obama could have used this appear weak strategy in his best interests with regard to Iran, and Russian sanctions, and support. Make a back room deal that we'll bluster in the media about how bad you dastardly Russians are, but secretly you'll back us on Iran. Deal? Cool, let's go get a beer. Wouldn't be the first time we made deals like this to stay out of a war but gain something in return..


    Whoever is advising the President isn't very adept at analyzing all the available options that gives America an advantage. I'd take any positive news on Ukraine at this point, but sadly we have a really crappy leader and terribly inept tactician.

    Tim-
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Because Russia was too dumb to figure that out on their own?
    Putting troops in Ukraine absolutely was an option.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I'm not advocating military action and have gone on record from the very beginning (actually way before this even started) that Russia was not done with it plans of retaking the satellites back, eventually. Let's face it, if your Putin what better president to do that under than Obama? That said, I do not support war with Russia, but consider this approach. Putin has made many insinuations regarding military force and use in Crimea. All Obama had to do was match that rhetoric, but be prepared to follow through with at least building up. When two powers square off directly like this (In the last 50 years we've mostly fought each other through proxy wars) history tells us that there is usually a build up and then a cooling off phase. Both leaders piss on each other but then stop to wipe it off. When they stop, they start to really think about the consequences of taking serious action. Generally a third party or some other entity offers both a way out where both can look like winners, and the matter begins to die down.

    I'm not sure how Obama can look like a winner here, he's already lost cred so many times, and including this incident that no one really fears him. The matching strategy outlined above would have needed to happen right from the get-go, NOT a month into it, when Russia now has Crimea, and all Obama can muster is sanctioning 11 officials and not inviting Putin to his G7 party.. Obama could have used this appear weak strategy in his best interests with regard to Iran, and Russian sanctions, and support. Make a back room deal that we'll bluster in the media about how bad you dastardly Russians are, but secretly you'll back us on Iran. Deal? Cool, let's go get a beer. Wouldn't be the first time we made deals like this to stay out of a war but gain something in return..


    Whoever is advising the President isn't very adept at analyzing all the available options that gives America an advantage. I'd take any positive news on Ukraine at this point, but sadly we have a really crappy leader and terribly inept tactician.

    Tim-
    THERE IS NO DEAL TO MAKE ABOUT IRAN. NONE, ZERO. NADA.

    Ukraine just learned that Russia and the USA work to get a country to disarm itself as part of a longer range plan to invade the country and depose/kill its leaders.

    ANY talk of "deals" about IRAN ended this month - permanently. Iran will become a nuclear weapons power. Quickly.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    If Obama made a military threat against Russia most people here would be jumping all over him for not having enough spine to follow through, if he doesn't make a military threat then he's just weak.

    He's simply stating the obvious, Russia knows they aren't about to enter a war with the US and pretending that we may actually use military force would be just plain silly.

    Economics and diplomacy is whats going to beat back Russia, not military threats.
    10 years from now, Russia will still control Crimea.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    THERE IS NO DEAL TO MAKE ABOUT IRAN. NONE, ZERO. NADA.

    Ukraine just learned that Russia and the USA work to get a country to disarm itself as part of a longer range plan to invade the country and depose/kill its leaders.

    ANY talk of "deals" about IRAN ended this month - permanently. Iran will become a nuclear weapons power. Quickly.
    Sadly I fear this might be true..

    Crimea that Russian Satrapy.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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