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Thread: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

  1. #91
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Actually, seems to me it's even a little more simple - if it supports liberty for the individual libertarian, it's good - if not, it's irrelevant and thus bad. Supporting liberty for others, such as those in Ukraine at the moment, is not so good. Basically, inside the borders of the libertarian's domain is the only area of relevance. The crown prince of libertarians, Ron Paul, made that pretty clear.
    That is no where near my definition of libertarian principle.

    It starts with limitations on how much the state can interfere in provincial/state, group and individual lives while at the same time balancing the need for a social safety net.

    Some things that are good for the individual must be restricted for the good of the whole such as alcohol consumption, gambling, drugs etc. The aim of the liberal is to find the appropriate balance based on community standards; a practice now being tacitly practiced in Canada where the insanity of a national criminal code is moderated by local practices. For instance, the Vancouver Police department has served notice that it has no intention of arresting self growers in medical marijuana, Harper's new law, nor will the BC Attorney General enter into any prosecutions.

    No true libertarian I would walk with would fail to advocate for self determination in Ukraine or anywhere elese. However that support for their rights begins with first the semi-occupation of Ukraine by Russia these many years, AND the CIA's meddling.

    You cannot stand FOR their "rights" by superimposing the geo-political needs of super powers as a means to liberty.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
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  2. #92
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Of course it's not a good idea, but, you don't tell the Russians that military force is, flat out, not an option. That's going to encourage then.
    I don't disagree with this, but you also don't say things like "All options are on the table" when you know damn well you have no intention of using some of them. Not only do you know it, but they know it, too.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #93
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    That is no where near my definition of libertarian principle.

    It starts with limitations on how much the state can interfere in provincial/state, group and individual lives while at the same time balancing the need for a social safety net.

    Some things that are good for the individual must be restricted for the good of the whole such as alcohol consumption, gambling, drugs etc. The aim of the liberal is to find the appropriate balance based on community standards; a practice now being tacitly practiced in Canada where the insanity of a national criminal code is moderated by local practices. For instance, the Vancouver Police department has served notice that it has no intention of arresting self growers in medical marijuana, Harper's new law, nor will the BC Attorney General enter into any prosecutions.

    No true libertarian I would walk with would fail to advocate for self determination in Ukraine or anywhere elese. However that support for their rights begins with first the semi-occupation of Ukraine by Russia these many years, AND the CIA's meddling.

    You cannot stand FOR their "rights" by superimposing the geo-political needs of super powers as a means to liberty.
    Fair enough - but then you're Canadian and as a result a much more pragmatic libertarian.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #94
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair enough - if they don't ask for it - but if they do ask, usually it's pretty successful. I'm pretty sure supporting liberty in most of Europe during the two world wars was pretty successful. I think supporting liberty in South Korea was pretty successful. I think supporting liberty in Kuwait during Desert Storm was pretty successful. I could go on, but you get the point.
    Agreed, if they ask for it. I'm sure Western Europe is a lot freer than it would have been under Nazi control, or even under Soviet control.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I don't disagree with this, but you also don't say things like "All options are on the table" when you know damn well you have no intention of using some of them. Not only do you know it, but they know it, too.
    Thats why, when you're a leader, people have to believe you're going to follow through with your threats. Unfortunately, we don't have a leader for a president; we have a community organizer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    So as our President, he is doing all that the USA can logically do. Thanks for the vote of support. At last some on the right are realizing their foolishness.
    Yoi believe Obama is acting logical?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #97
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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yoi believe Obama is acting logical?
    what use is russia military if its economy is broken?
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    The big question is : Is this man believable?

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    The big question is : Is this man believable?
    Heya Woodman. He wouldn't lie to us now, would he? He has never lied to us before, Right?

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    Re: Obama Rules Out 'military excursion' in Ukraine.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Woodman. He wouldn't lie to us now, would he? He has never lied to us before, Right?
    An American president lying to the American people?

    Unthinkable!
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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