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Thread: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Oh but a democratically elected government chose to turn away from "western values" and embrace Russia, HORRORS, as if Russia was our enemy which it wasn't, but I guess it is now. Judging by the way we treat other democratically elected presidents that don't suckle at the cock of western and american oligarchy, I'm not surprised. Somehow we have this bizarre idea that if only we help the protesting masses, we'll come to find the are all hungry for the capitalist, oligarchic, psuedo-freedoms we are collapsing under.
    I have no doubt that the violence from the far right nationalists and neo-Nazis in Kiev and western Ukraine will only get worse in the months to come. The venom that they spew on the internet is frightening.

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Did Bush sell your country to a foreign power? No? Ok then, your argument and comparation is BS.
    Yanukovych did not sell his country, that's just a bunch of hype. He made what sounded like a pretty damned good deal. Secondly, we are more akin to Russia in this analogy and OH YES we have bought many countries, for example as I mentioned, Iraq and Afghanistan and even though they are heading in directions that have no connection whatsoever to the values of our country, and are not/were not populated by US citizens, and yet we're still paying them outrageous amounts of corrupt payments and bribery.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Yanukovych did not sell his country, that's just a bunch of hype. He made what sounded like a pretty damned good deal. Secondly, we are more akin to Russia in this analogy and OH YES we have bought many countries, for example as I mentioned, Iraq and Afghanistan and even though they are heading in directions that have no connection whatsoever to the values of our country, and are not/were not populated by US citizens, and yet we're still paying them outrageous amounts of corrupt payments and bribery.
    Buying and selling are 2 different things. I mean, they're still transactions, but the impact is different.

    Mubarak in Egypt sold his country to the USA. That is true. You bought them. And that's why a lot of Egyptians are pissed off at the USA and were pissed off when they rioted in the streets. Was the USA sold to someone? Did Bush sell the USA to China? Did he take a bribe from some foreign nation to sell out US interests? No. It's 2 different scenarios, now isn't it?
    In Afghanistan, the current president, I forget his name, gets millions of $$$ from the USA to be on your side and he still wabbles here and there. But you can't say that the buyer is in the same position as the seller. The people of Afghanistan are outraged that their president is selling them out and that's why the talibans have a large recruitment base there, they're feeding off that anger. They don't want to be a vassal state. Sure, they have a wrong agenda for the country, I'm not siding with the talibans or whatever, but you can understand how an anti-american message would be popular since it's clear that the president of afghanistan is bought for.

    But again, Bush or Obama didn't sell out the USA to any foreign nation.

    And it's not a hype. 37 bil $$$ are missing from Ukraine, as in, they've been stolen by Yanukovych and his cronies over the course of his mandate. 37bil where the total economy of Ukraine is just 6x that number.
    Ukraine PM says $37 billion went missing under Yanukovich | Reuters

    All of it from loans. And Russia decided to loan another 15bil $$$ to the same regime, a large chunk of that would have gone missing again, to bribe them. And it's a double whammy for the people because they'll still have to pay the interest and the loan back but all that money was stolen and not put in place to improve the economy.
    You tell me that is a correct thing to do as a govrenment that is supposed to work for the people. To put them 37bil $$$ in debt and steal all that money.

    I told you before and many like you. You don't understand what is happening there and you reject the complexity of the matter for a simplistic view based on principles that are not in play and rhetoric that doesn't make sense in the context of Ukraine.

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Buying and selling are 2 different things. I mean, they're still transactions, but the impact is different.

    Mubarak in Egypt sold his country to the USA. That is true. You bought them. And that's why a lot of Egyptians are pissed off at the USA and were pissed off when they rioted in the streets. Was the USA sold to someone? Did Bush sell the USA to China? Did he take a bribe from some foreign nation to sell out US interests? No. It's 2 different scenarios, now isn't it?
    In Afghanistan, the current president, I forget his name, gets millions of $$$ from the USA to be on your side and he still wabbles here and there. But you can't say that the buyer is in the same position as the seller. The people of Afghanistan are outraged that their president is selling them out and that's why the talibans have a large recruitment base there, they're feeding off that anger. They don't want to be a vassal state. Sure, they have a wrong agenda for the country, I'm not siding with the talibans or whatever, but you can understand how an anti-american message would be popular since it's clear that the president of afghanistan is bought for.

    But again, Bush or Obama didn't sell out the USA to any foreign nation.

    And it's not a hype. 37 bil $$$ are missing from Ukraine, as in, they've been stolen by Yanukovych and his cronies over the course of his mandate. 37bil where the total economy of Ukraine is just 6x that number.
    Ukraine PM says $37 billion went missing under Yanukovich | Reuters

    All of it from loans. And Russia decided to loan another 15bil $$$ to the same regime, a large chunk of that would have gone missing again, to bribe them. And it's a double whammy for the people because they'll still have to pay the interest and the loan back but all that money was stolen and not put in place to improve the economy.
    You tell me that is a correct thing to do as a govrenment that is supposed to work for the people. To put them 37bil $$$ in debt and steal all that money.

    I told you before and many like you. You don't understand what is happening there and you reject the complexity of the matter for a simplistic view based on principles that are not in play and rhetoric that doesn't make sense in the context of Ukraine.
    That's a lot of words to still be wrong. If the democratically elected parliament didn't oust him, it was illegitimate. And what it seems they are about to get will be no less corrupt.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    That's a lot of words to still be wrong. If the democratically elected parliament didn't oust him, it was illegitimate. And what it seems they are about to get will be no less corrupt.
    No but now they are with USA and EU. We should tell them to be more civil now since we are no bullies like Russians.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    No but now they are with USA and EU. We should tell them to be more civil now since we are no bullies like Russians.

    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    That's a lot of words to still be wrong. If the democratically elected parliament didn't oust him, it was illegitimate. And what it seems they are about to get will be no less corrupt.
    Ok, I'm done here.

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Me too.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Did Bush sell your country to a foreign power? No? Ok then, your argument and comparation is BS.
    You could make that claim about several of our Presidents.

    In the Ukraine kissing Russian ass gets cheap Natural Gas the Ukrainians couldn't afford at true market prices- that is a continuance of the false economy of the USSR.

    The USofA has been kissing desert bandit ass for decades to control massive amounts of oil.

    BushI attacked Iraq to stop it from threatening Saudi oil and gaining leverage in the OPEC council.

    BushII sunk us in the desert to the brink of financial ruin for everyone but the average American.

    Now when it comes to dismissing violent right wing thugs- it doesn't take many thugs to make a nation lawless. If these thugs are not pulled back hard then I doubt the average Ukrainian will feel safer as they shiver without heat.

    By Eastern European standards the new leadership may very well be a breath of fresh air- better your own thugs than the other guy's thugs I guess is the line of thought by the new leadership.

    In the West- not so much a breath of fresh air just the same stink with a wiff of cheap perfume...

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    Re: Ukraine far right Svoboda attack TV chief and force to resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    That's a lot of words to still be wrong. If the democratically elected parliament didn't oust him, it was illegitimate. And what it seems they are about to get will be no less corrupt.
    Great debate technique.

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