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US Rejects Crimea Vote, says Russian actions 'Dangerous'.....

NoC_T said:
US: Democracy, dammit! 'Murica, dammit! Stars and Stripes!

Russia: Hmm? Oh, right yeah. Uh Huh. You don't say. For real? Wow. Pass the salt.
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US rejects Crimea vote? They really said this? Are they serious? HaHaHaHaHa...pass the vodka, too. while you're at it! HaHaHaHa

Greetings, NoC_T. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
US rejects Crimea vote? They really said this? Are they serious? HaHaHaHaHa...pass the vodka, too. while you're at it! HaHaHaHa

Greetings, NoC_T. :2wave:
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Evening, Polgara. :)

Talk about megalomania, right? :lol:
 
NoC_T said:
Evening, Polgara. :)

Talk about megalomania, right? :lol:
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Right! How about "Russia rejects California vote?" We would have 15 different threads arguing about that within minutes! :lamo:
 
Meanwhile...

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama's national security team discussed the Ukraine crisis in a session at the White House on Saturday after a last-ditch bid to find a diplomatic solution to the Cold War-style standoff with Russia floundered.

Secretary of State John Kerry, who just returned from talks with his Russian counterpart in London, was at the White House meeting along with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

Obama did not attend the meeting but was being briefed about it and other developments involving Ukraine, said Laura Lucas Magnuson, a spokeswoman for the White House National Security Council."

Shocking.....
 
MMC said:



Sunday, March 16, 2014
In an atmosphere of joy Crimeans are waiting polling stations opening to vote. Unlike the neo nazi coup d'état in Kiev Crimean people will have the opportunity to choose their future in a democratic way, with this status referendum Crimea and Russia gives a huge democracy professorship to the west and provides an alternative to the world geo politics.
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Here on why in Chicago more kills than in Africans countries, because there lives people like you. It would be good for Chicago to join Russia. And for USA, too
 
Well some see us protecting an investment those interests.....others seeing us throwing away money.


The US purports to advocate Democracy, but in reality advocates for governments friendly to Multi-National corporations. Regime change is orchestrated by the US AID for politicians friendly to Multi-National Corporations.

"Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market-based economy. The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.

Today, USAID/Ukraine implements a focused development assistance program to support: more participatory, transparent, and accountable governance; broad-based resilient economic development; and improved health status for Ukrainians. USAID also supports U.S. Presidential Initiatives in Global Health and Global Climate Change."


USAID | Embassy of the United States Kyiv, Ukraine

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/187296-ukrainian-crisis-2014-a-64.html

Gladiator had this up in the Crisis thread.
 
Dittohead not! said:
And, like all elections, the US has to approve or they aren't valid.
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It's not the U.S. per say, it's always the Democrats who have a problem with election results when their side don't win.

I suppose tomorrow morning Kerry will be demanding that the Ukrainian military absentee ballots not to be counted. They tried that in Florida back in 2000.
 
APACHERAT said:
It's not the U.S. per say, it's always the Democrats who have a problem with election results when their side don't win.

I suppose tomorrow morning Kerry will be demanding that the Ukrainian military absentee ballots not to be counted. They tried that in Florida back in 2000.
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Hmm... somehow, I missed the part where the Republicans thought the election was valid.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Hmm... somehow, I missed the part where the Republicans thought the election was valid.
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It's the Democrats call considering they are in better position to know if corruption was involved or not. They have the experience when it comes to corruption at the polls. And the current administration has surrounded itself with those of the corrupt Chicago political machine.

It's Obama's call if the elections in the Crimea were corrupt or not, his word carries a lot of weight.
 
APACHERAT said:
It's the Democrats call considering they are in better position to know if corruption was involved or not. They have the experience when it comes to corruption at the polls. And the current administration has surrounded itself with those of the corrupt Chicago political machine.

If Obama's call if the elections in the Crimea were corrupt or not, his word carries a lot of weight.
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I believe that must be the first time you said that Obama's word carries a lot of weight.:lol:
 
Gaius46 said:
I don't know what the Ukraine constitution says but I'm guessing the vote probably isn't constitutional.

That said I'm willing to bet the majority of Crimean's probably do want to be part of Russia. There's nothing we can do about it and there's nothing we should do about it.
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By what standard is it unconstitutional and why would you say that after admitting you know little about the Ukraine constitution.

What gives the right for the United States to demand anything in the region? Since when is the US the final authority about what is right and is wrong with the world especially since you started a war 13 years ago to protect your so-called "way of life" and the proceeded to withdraw every one of those rights with the Patriot act?

If the US wants to make demands on Russia, what if this mysterious "international community" Kerry and Obama keep blathering about, demanded the US undergo constitutional reforms and repeal the rights destroying Patriot Act.

The Obama administration blew this. They either allowed to continue or initiated a regime change with CIA meddling, arrogantly not considering what Putin might do. Obama pushed his hand and now we are the verge of yet another war involving the Americans.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I believe that must be the first time you said that Obama's word carries a lot of weight.:lol:
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Obama is a community organiser. Community organisers are agitators, they are corrupt, they cause problems and divide the people, use their followers as pawns to further a radical leftist political agenda.
 
MMC said:
Heya Gaius. :2wave: Yeah 93% or so they are saying. Well.....I want to see if we go thru with the Economic Sanctions like Kerry said that would take place immediately Monday.

Which is probably true. That Lavrov is willing to look for way. Doesn't mean they will agree to any way they find. Nor accept it. Still.....they can agree to look. :roll:

Myself.....I wonder how Kerry keeps falling for the same tactic.
thinking.gif
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I know it was over the phone.....but Lavrov did say they can look for way to defuse the crisis.


Easy, he's a dumb as bag of hammers and being led by a community organizer.
 
Fearandloathing said:
By what standard is it unconstitutional and why would you say that after admitting you know little about the Ukraine constitution.

What gives the right for the United States to demand anything in the region? Since when is the US the final authority about what is right and is wrong with the world especially since you started a war 13 years ago to protect your so-called "way of life" and the proceeded to withdraw every one of those rights with the Patriot act?

If the US wants to make demands on Russia, what if this mysterious "international community" Kerry and Obama keep blathering about, demanded the US undergo constitutional reforms and repeal the rights destroying Patriot Act.

The Obama administration blew this. They either allowed to continue or initiated a regime change with CIA meddling, arrogantly not considering what Putin might do. Obama pushed his hand and now we are the verge of yet another war involving the Americans.
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You're doing well up to the "war involving the Americans". That is unlikely in the extreme.

About as likely as a war in Vancouver.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You're doing well up to the "war involving the Americans". That is unlikely in the extreme.

About as likely as a war in Vancouver.
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Agreed, poor choice of words, perhaps "threat of war" or "instability" involving the Americans.

However, having said that, my confidence in the likes of Kerry and Obama in dealing with Putin cannot not involve the concern of a shooting war.
 
Gaius46 said:
I don't know what the Ukraine constitution says but I'm guessing the vote probably isn't constitutional.

That said I'm willing to bet the majority of Crimean's probably do want to be part of Russia. There's nothing we can do about it and there's nothing we should do about it.
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More or less sums it up for me.
 
Coin said:
Respect the will of the people - US said it so many times in the past ......

They can judge for ages as illegal but the fact is that Crimea want and is going to join Russia and no one can change it now.
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Let them join. No one is stopping them. All they have to do is cross the border and apply for citizenship. Which if Russia really is telling the truth and this is just about what the people want they will gladly accept them as citizens.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I trying to find the article I read where a Crimean member of parliament was quoted as saying that he had been visited by a Russian military officer and told that he go immediately to the parliament building to vote. He refused. But when the vote count was shown on Russian TV, it showed he had voted in favor of the change in government to control by the Pro-Russian group that only got 4% in the last real election.

He didn't even go to the parliament and yet they showed him voting.

I'll keep looking.
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I saw the same article. I believe it was on the BBC website at some point. There's no doubt that the new Crimean gov't and the recent 'referendum' is a sham. Everyone knows it, so I'm not sure why people are still trying to defend it as legitimate. It really doesn't matter, that's a better argument for these people. It really doesn't matter, because even if it was a legitimate vote the reality is that Russia controls Crimea at this point whether the results were for Russia or not. Putin is simply trying legitimize his illegal actions after the fact. It's a joke.

Crimea referendum: early results indicate 'landslide' for secession
-scroll down to see the part where a pravda journalist (russian citizen) voted for Russia in the so called 'referendum'.
 
SBu said:
I saw the same article. I believe it was on the BBC website at some point. There's no doubt that the new Crimean gov't and the recent 'referendum' is a sham. Everyone knows it, so I'm not sure why people are still trying to defend it as legitimate. It really doesn't matter, that's a better argument for these people. It really doesn't matter, because even if it was a legitimate vote the reality is that Russia controls Crimea at this point whether the results were for Russia or not. Putin is simply trying legitimize his illegal actions after the fact. It's a joke.

Crimea referendum: early results indicate 'landslide' for secession
-scroll down to see the part where a pravda journalist (russian citizen) voted for Russia in the so called 'referendum'.
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Agreed. Russia has a noose around Crimeas neck and a gun at their back, asking them nicely to vote their conscious, and to please, be honest. :mrgreen:

This entire escapade from a US perspective is a yawner. Anything to take the view off our domestic issues... Kerry and the rest can shake their fists and write strongly worded memo's all day, Vlad's not listening and not interested.
 
MMC said:
We talked tuff.....telling Russia they must pull out. Bout it! Then we offered the Russians a deal. Of course Lavrov said they can talk and work out something, again.

The United States Sunday strongly rejected a vote in Crimea on breaking away from Ukraine, and called Russian actions in the crisis "dangerous and destabilizing."

"This referendum is contrary to Ukraine’s constitution, and the international community will not recognize the results of a poll administered under threats of violence and intimidation from a Russian military intervention that violates international law," White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

The White House statement came as Crimea's pro-Moscow authorities announced that exit polls showed a 93 percent vote in favor of becoming part of Russia.

"The United States has steadfastly supported the independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity of Ukraine since it declared its independence in 1991, and we reject the 'referendum' that took place today in the Crimean region of Ukraine," Carney said.

In a phone call with Lavrov, Kerry urged Moscow to pull back Russian forces to their bases in Crimea in exchange for constitutional reforms to protect minority rights.

A senior State Department official said Kerry "made clear that this crisis can only be resolved politically and that as Ukrainians take the necessary political measures going forward, Russia must reciprocate by pulling forces back to base, and addressing the tensions and concerns about military engagement."

Kerry's overture appeared to receive a positive echo in Moscow, where the foreign ministry said Lavrov and Kerry agreed to look for ways to defuse the crisis through "the launch as soon as possible of a constitutional reform with the support of the international community.".....snip~

US rejects Crimea vote, says Russian actions 'dangerous'
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Kinda looks like Russia is in violations of a treaty that they signed off on in the 1990s with regard to Ukraine and Crimea.
 
Ockham said:
Agreed. Russia has a noose around Crimeas neck and a gun at their back, asking them nicely to vote their conscious, and to please, be honest. :mrgreen:

This entire escapade from a US perspective is a yawner. Anything to take the view off our domestic issues... Kerry and the rest can shake their fists and write strongly worded memo's all day, Vlad's not listening and not interested.
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I do hope we respond strongly with economic sanctions. Russia needs to see that if it is going to act like a rogue state, then it will have to live like a rogue state. Perhaps that will remind them that the good ole days weren't so peachy. Up to now, I believe Putin has been surprised how easy it has been for him to occupy parts of another country and annex it. He has sacrificed a lot of political capital to do it, though.
 
Fearandloathing said:
By what standard is it unconstitutional and why would you say that after admitting you know little about the Ukraine constitution.

What gives the right for the United States to demand anything in the region? Since when is the US the final authority about what is right and is wrong with the world especially since you started a war 13 years ago to protect your so-called "way of life" and the proceeded to withdraw every one of those rights with the Patriot act?

If the US wants to make demands on Russia, what if this mysterious "international community" Kerry and Obama keep blathering about, demanded the US undergo constitutional reforms and repeal the rights destroying Patriot Act.

The Obama administration blew this. They either allowed to continue or initiated a regime change with CIA meddling, arrogantly not considering what Putin might do. Obama pushed his hand and now we are the verge of yet another war involving the Americans.
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Ukraine's constitition doesn't contain any provision for secession.
 
Donc said:
Kinda looks like Russia is in violations of a treaty that they signed off on in the 1990s with regard to Ukraine and Crimea.
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Yeah it does.....it also looks like the Ukrainians decided to give Democracy a kick in the ass too. Going with a Coup of a Democratic Elected Leader and a Democratic Election.

Not only did they sign off on it.....but then they actually think that the Rest of the World will forget what they did and Only look at Putin. Now isn't that quite funny.

Do you think the western MS media can help try and hide that fact now even if they don't like or want to have to report it?
 
MMC said:
Yeah it does.....it also looks like the Ukrainians decided to give Democracy a kick in the ass too. Going with a Coup of a Democratic Elected Leader and a Democratic Election.

Not only did they sign off on it.....but then they actually think that the Rest of the World will forget what they did and Only look at Putin. Now isn't that quite funny.

Do you think the western MS media can help try and hide that fact now even if they don't like or want to have to report it?
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What the Ukrainian Parliament does is the business of the Ukrainians, not the Russians. They can't even run their own country properly much less that of their neighbors. It's one sick Mother Russia.

Russia Economy: Population, GDP, Inflation, Business, Trade, FDI, Corruption

Russia's 21st Century Malaise in Five Grim Charts - Businessweek

Russia's economy: The crumbling Kremlin? | The Economist
 
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