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6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls[W:74]
- Thread starter Imnukingfutz
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
What's the difference who vote, physically dead elderly or brain dead youth?
Democracy in which every idiot can vote, regardless of his/her social status, is a mob rule. Ochlocracy. Power of greedy and stupid crowd.
What's the difference who vote, physically dead elderly or brain dead youth?
Democracy in which every idiot can vote, regardless of his/her social status, is a mob rule. Ochlocracy. Power of greedy and stupid crowd.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Then someone belongs in prison including the fool who checked signatures.
Then someone belongs in prison including the fool who checked signatures.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
And a system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called tyranny and mob rule. Face it, when you have a voting system its going to be based off the majority. IE Mob. I would rather have plain old mob rule than mob rule combined with tyranny.
And a system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called tyranny and mob rule. Face it, when you have a voting system its going to be based off the majority. IE Mob. I would rather have plain old mob rule than mob rule combined with tyranny.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
In order to choose a government citizenl must meet several criteria. For example, to pay taxes.
No. A system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called Qualified democracy.
In order to choose a government citizenl must meet several criteria. For example, to pay taxes.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
The principal here, which is being corrupted by various occurrences, is that each qualified voter, as in age and citizenship, each has a single vote to cast.
Whether dead people are recorded as voting, or incorrect votes are recorded due to clerical errors, or a non-citizen votes when they should not be allowed to, that same fundamental principal is being violated.
Requiring voters to show approved ID is one way to eliminate some of this corruption.
A revision of the clerical procedures to reduce and / or eliminate clerical errors would be another.
Cleaning up and validating the voter roles so that voters who have moved away, died, etc. are no longer on the rolls is yet another.
I'd have no problem if all of those things were done to ensure that proper and accurate election results, or at least as proper and accurate as reasonably possible, were the rule rather than the exception.
In the same way that credit extended is an expression of belief by the lender that the borrower can and will pay back the loan, it is the belief of the electorate in fair and accurate election results that gives those that are elected the authority to govern.
Now why in the world would any reasonable person be against increasing and / or maintaining the electorate's faith and belief in fair and accurate elections and their results?
The principal here, which is being corrupted by various occurrences, is that each qualified voter, as in age and citizenship, each has a single vote to cast.
Whether dead people are recorded as voting, or incorrect votes are recorded due to clerical errors, or a non-citizen votes when they should not be allowed to, that same fundamental principal is being violated.
Requiring voters to show approved ID is one way to eliminate some of this corruption.
A revision of the clerical procedures to reduce and / or eliminate clerical errors would be another.
Cleaning up and validating the voter roles so that voters who have moved away, died, etc. are no longer on the rolls is yet another.
I'd have no problem if all of those things were done to ensure that proper and accurate election results, or at least as proper and accurate as reasonably possible, were the rule rather than the exception.
In the same way that credit extended is an expression of belief by the lender that the borrower can and will pay back the loan, it is the belief of the electorate in fair and accurate election results that gives those that are elected the authority to govern.
Now why in the world would any reasonable person be against increasing and / or maintaining the electorate's faith and belief in fair and accurate elections and their results?
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
I really hate repeating this.
Nobody is against having to show ID to vote, per se. It's making those IDs available to everyone equally, regardless of economic status or other mitigating factors, that the law hinges on, and voter ID laws rarely if ever allow for this.
I really hate repeating this.
Nobody is against having to show ID to vote, per se. It's making those IDs available to everyone equally, regardless of economic status or other mitigating factors, that the law hinges on, and voter ID laws rarely if ever allow for this.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
There so few things in life that you can do without ID, so many, many more instances where you have to have one, collect a welfare or unemployment benefit check or food stamps to name only a very few.
I'd support, as in pay for, anyone not having proper ID for voting to get one. Done. Let's get over this ridiculous point of contention and move on. (Do you think that any of the congress critters in DC heard that? :lol
There so few things in life that you can do without ID, so many, many more instances where you have to have one, collect a welfare or unemployment benefit check or food stamps to name only a very few.
I'd support, as in pay for, anyone not having proper ID for voting to get one. Done. Let's get over this ridiculous point of contention and move on. (Do you think that any of the congress critters in DC heard that? :lol
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
You think using prettier words changes its nature? In the end you are justifying using mob rule by a select few to rule over those you think are not qualified enough to vote.
You think using prettier words changes its nature? In the end you are justifying using mob rule by a select few to rule over those you think are not qualified enough to vote.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Really? Come on, if you walk into any story and write a check they usually ask for you ID. Tell me who can't come up with enough money to buy and ID? How much is an ID, like $10?
Really? Come on, if you walk into any story and write a check they usually ask for you ID. Tell me who can't come up with enough money to buy and ID? How much is an ID, like $10?
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Another person who thinks it's a good idea to disenfranchise retirees, stay at home mums, volunteers and the disabled, but thinks it's a good idea for a 15 year old with a job flipping burgers to be able to vote.
Another person who thinks it's a good idea to disenfranchise retirees, stay at home mums, volunteers and the disabled, but thinks it's a good idea for a 15 year old with a job flipping burgers to be able to vote.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Well, in New York State a driver's license costs about 75-100 dollars just to renew. I don't remember how much it cost when I got one 20 years ago, but I know damn well the price has gone up.
For many people, a photo ID is cost prohibitive.
An ID to vote should be FREE. Free, no strings attached, free. Even if it costs 1 cent, that's a poll tax. And poll taxes are unconstitutional.
So my answer to you is, I DON'T CARE who can't come up with enough money for an ID. What I care about is people having to pay to vote.
Well, in New York State a driver's license costs about 75-100 dollars just to renew. I don't remember how much it cost when I got one 20 years ago, but I know damn well the price has gone up.
For many people, a photo ID is cost prohibitive.
An ID to vote should be FREE. Free, no strings attached, free. Even if it costs 1 cent, that's a poll tax. And poll taxes are unconstitutional.
So my answer to you is, I DON'T CARE who can't come up with enough money for an ID. What I care about is people having to pay to vote.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
You claim that to many it's cost prohibitive, and I ask how do you know that. You say you worry about people having to pay to vote, they are not. They are ask for proof that they are who they say they are. Anyone could walk off the street to any voting location and vote. What's to stop someone from going to another polling location and voting there; or maybe someone who isn't even a citizen from voting. How about the possibility of foreign countries sending in people to vote and interfering with our election process. We require background checks to purchase guns, but no identification to vote. Where's the logic? You can't cash a check at a bank without ID.
You claim that to many it's cost prohibitive, and I ask how do you know that. You say you worry about people having to pay to vote, they are not. They are ask for proof that they are who they say they are. Anyone could walk off the street to any voting location and vote. What's to stop someone from going to another polling location and voting there; or maybe someone who isn't even a citizen from voting. How about the possibility of foreign countries sending in people to vote and interfering with our election process. We require background checks to purchase guns, but no identification to vote. Where's the logic? You can't cash a check at a bank without ID.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
It costs a max of $13-$14 to get a NY state ID that is valid for 8-9 years. And as little as $9-$10 for a 4 to 5 year ID.
NY State ID
I do agree that the $100 plus for a DL is way too much. Honestly if I hadn't looked it up I wouldn't have believed you on that price. Just another reason for me to not like NY I guess. But that aside I wouldn't care if they gave ID's out for free. So long as the person applying for it can prove they are US citizens. That would be my only requirement. And if they can't? Honestly...to bad. In today's day and age the amount of people that can't get their birth certificate and are US citizens is so small that it would be statistically irrelevent in ANY election, even if they were to all vote for one party it wouldn't affect the votes that much. Add the fact that not all of them will vote for the same party really does make it a statistical improbability for them to affect any election outcome.
On the flip side if 7-12 million illegal immigrants were to all vote (not saying they all would but I have no doubt that some do) then it would greatly affect the out come of an election. Even if they all didn't vote for the same party.
As far as the poll tax goes, every single amendment in our constitution has exceptions. Those exceptions having been determined to be needful so that other peoples rights are not trampled by others. Yes, poll taxes designed to limit who can and cannot vote most certainly should NOT be allowed. However even if you consider making people pay $10 for a state ID as a poll tax (which I really don't considering that a state ID is and can be used for far more than just for voting, indeed you can't do a lot of things without some sort of state issued ID now a days...even get welfare) it is not a poll tax designed to keep ANY citizen from voting because you can get $10 easy by simply selling lemonade on a sidwalk. (my kid made that much just by helping another kid do it). If a person can't make $10 then i'm sure there are charities out there that would pay for it. And if not then there are always government welfare subsidies or just plainly giving out the ID's for free to those that can't afford it. With all that said I would have to say that illegal aliens voting, even the possibility of them being able to vote because there is no way to catch them, is a damn good reason to require ID's at a voting station.
And just to note: A poll tax is a tax designed to prevent a certain class of people from voting. Which means making that "tax" so exhorbirant that that class of people cannot afford it. There isn't a single person in the US that cannot make $10 if they actually get off thier butts and do a little bit of work for as little as an hour and a half a day going by Federal minimum wage. So...an hour and a half for an ID that will last for 4-5 years...hardly an imposition on anyone.
It costs a max of $13-$14 to get a NY state ID that is valid for 8-9 years. And as little as $9-$10 for a 4 to 5 year ID.
NY State ID
I do agree that the $100 plus for a DL is way too much. Honestly if I hadn't looked it up I wouldn't have believed you on that price. Just another reason for me to not like NY I guess. But that aside I wouldn't care if they gave ID's out for free. So long as the person applying for it can prove they are US citizens. That would be my only requirement. And if they can't? Honestly...to bad. In today's day and age the amount of people that can't get their birth certificate and are US citizens is so small that it would be statistically irrelevent in ANY election, even if they were to all vote for one party it wouldn't affect the votes that much. Add the fact that not all of them will vote for the same party really does make it a statistical improbability for them to affect any election outcome.
On the flip side if 7-12 million illegal immigrants were to all vote (not saying they all would but I have no doubt that some do) then it would greatly affect the out come of an election. Even if they all didn't vote for the same party.
As far as the poll tax goes, every single amendment in our constitution has exceptions. Those exceptions having been determined to be needful so that other peoples rights are not trampled by others. Yes, poll taxes designed to limit who can and cannot vote most certainly should NOT be allowed. However even if you consider making people pay $10 for a state ID as a poll tax (which I really don't considering that a state ID is and can be used for far more than just for voting, indeed you can't do a lot of things without some sort of state issued ID now a days...even get welfare) it is not a poll tax designed to keep ANY citizen from voting because you can get $10 easy by simply selling lemonade on a sidwalk. (my kid made that much just by helping another kid do it). If a person can't make $10 then i'm sure there are charities out there that would pay for it. And if not then there are always government welfare subsidies or just plainly giving out the ID's for free to those that can't afford it. With all that said I would have to say that illegal aliens voting, even the possibility of them being able to vote because there is no way to catch them, is a damn good reason to require ID's at a voting station.
And just to note: A poll tax is a tax designed to prevent a certain class of people from voting. Which means making that "tax" so exhorbirant that that class of people cannot afford it. There isn't a single person in the US that cannot make $10 if they actually get off thier butts and do a little bit of work for as little as an hour and a half a day going by Federal minimum wage. So...an hour and a half for an ID that will last for 4-5 years...hardly an imposition on anyone.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Snipping somewhat for brevity; I will do my best to maintain context.
There are many people who are very old who don't have easy access to birth certificates. Statistical relevance does not concern me. Making sure everyone who is eligible to vote is able to does.
And I am not in favor of illegal immigrants voting.
Really? Tell the guys in the gun forum that, see how that goes.
(that was my lame attempt at humor)
A poll tax is putting a mandatory cost on voting. Period. And yeah, charities to pay for people voting? Christ, ACORN got disbanded for HELPING PEOPLE REGISTER TO VOTE. Let's get serious here, Kal.
Again, I'm fine with them not being able to vote.
No, a poll tax is a tax on voting. Is there a Free Speech Tax? A Not-Quartering-Soldiers-In-Your-House Tax? A Right-To-A-Speedy-Trial Tax?
I don't care if you're the laziest mother****er on earth. You have the right to vote.
Snipping somewhat for brevity; I will do my best to maintain context.
There are many people who are very old who don't have easy access to birth certificates. Statistical relevance does not concern me. Making sure everyone who is eligible to vote is able to does.
And I am not in favor of illegal immigrants voting.
Really? Tell the guys in the gun forum that, see how that goes.
(that was my lame attempt at humor)
A poll tax is putting a mandatory cost on voting. Period. And yeah, charities to pay for people voting? Christ, ACORN got disbanded for HELPING PEOPLE REGISTER TO VOTE. Let's get serious here, Kal.
Again, I'm fine with them not being able to vote.
No, a poll tax is a tax on voting. Is there a Free Speech Tax? A Not-Quartering-Soldiers-In-Your-House Tax? A Right-To-A-Speedy-Trial Tax?
I don't care if you're the laziest mother****er on earth. You have the right to vote.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Well, read instead of going off all half-cocked and maybe you'd learn something.
You want people to have to prove who they say they are at the polls. Fine. I'm OK with that. Now, how do they do that? With an ID. What does an ID cost? Money.
Are you saying that those who may not be able to afford an ID should not be allowed to vote? Because if you are, then you are advocating a poll tax. Which is unconstitutional.
The fallacy amongst conservatives is that liberals don't WANT people to have to prove who they are. The vast, vast, vast majority of liberals have no problem with people proving who they are at the polls, as long as the ability to do so is available to all, regardless of economic standing.
Well, read instead of going off all half-cocked and maybe you'd learn something.
You want people to have to prove who they say they are at the polls. Fine. I'm OK with that. Now, how do they do that? With an ID. What does an ID cost? Money.
Are you saying that those who may not be able to afford an ID should not be allowed to vote? Because if you are, then you are advocating a poll tax. Which is unconstitutional.
The fallacy amongst conservatives is that liberals don't WANT people to have to prove who they are. The vast, vast, vast majority of liberals have no problem with people proving who they are at the polls, as long as the ability to do so is available to all, regardless of economic standing.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
So now you want to disenfranchise dead voters and make someone fake an ID for them so they can vote? Haven't you heard - there's no such thing as voter fraud..... according to the far left wing anyway.
[/sarcasm]
So now you want to disenfranchise dead voters and make someone fake an ID for them so they can vote? Haven't you heard - there's no such thing as voter fraud..... according to the far left wing anyway.
[/sarcasm]
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
You want to treat an exception as a rule. BTW, we believe it because liberal fight voter ID like they don't have any goddam sense.
You want to treat an exception as a rule. BTW, we believe it because liberal fight voter ID like they don't have any goddam sense.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Seems to me the 2 main points the OP makes are not addressed by poll taxes or picture IDs.
First is a failure of the myriad of election boards to remove those who died from the voter roll, and then a HANDFUL of clerical errors where the vote was entered in the incorrect column.
There seems to be a myriad of computer driven ways to post to the election board deaths through Social Security, or the State Medical Examiner. This can be abused by state election supervisors requiring targeted groups to have to produce evidence they are not dead at the polling place, but frankly carrying dead folks on the rolls isn't an issue.
Your picture ID doesn't stop clerical error. My wife had her ID for a local bond election, howsomever her name wasn't on the roll- we have lived here for decades- she has voted many times before. She got to cast a provo ballot BUT later had to come back to the board and PROVE she was she and had lived in the county for over 6 months... :roll:
The three ladies who worked the polling place- our county courthouse as we are a VERY rural county- were very old and I think coke bottles are thinner than their glasses. I can see where the occasional error can occur, but a picture ID doesn't stop that.
Personally I see the ability to vote as proactive with the State having to prove a citizen can't vote rather than a citizen having to bear the burden of proof. Sort of like a court of law- I don't have to prove I didn't commit whatever crime, the State has to prove I did.
Seems to me the 2 main points the OP makes are not addressed by poll taxes or picture IDs.
First is a failure of the myriad of election boards to remove those who died from the voter roll, and then a HANDFUL of clerical errors where the vote was entered in the incorrect column.
There seems to be a myriad of computer driven ways to post to the election board deaths through Social Security, or the State Medical Examiner. This can be abused by state election supervisors requiring targeted groups to have to produce evidence they are not dead at the polling place, but frankly carrying dead folks on the rolls isn't an issue.
Your picture ID doesn't stop clerical error. My wife had her ID for a local bond election, howsomever her name wasn't on the roll- we have lived here for decades- she has voted many times before. She got to cast a provo ballot BUT later had to come back to the board and PROVE she was she and had lived in the county for over 6 months... :roll:
The three ladies who worked the polling place- our county courthouse as we are a VERY rural county- were very old and I think coke bottles are thinner than their glasses. I can see where the occasional error can occur, but a picture ID doesn't stop that.
Personally I see the ability to vote as proactive with the State having to prove a citizen can't vote rather than a citizen having to bear the burden of proof. Sort of like a court of law- I don't have to prove I didn't commit whatever crime, the State has to prove I did.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
Rights aren't supposed to have exceptions.
Rights aren't supposed to have exceptions.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
The right to franchise is limited by the states within reason. Felons cannot vote in many instances.
The right to franchise is limited by the states within reason. Felons cannot vote in many instances.
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Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls
So you fully endorse the arguments of gun enthusiasts regarding the 2nd now? South Carolina made their ID's free to everyone over 17, and still got sued by Holder's DOJ.
So you fully endorse the arguments of gun enthusiasts regarding the 2nd now? South Carolina made their ID's free to everyone over 17, and still got sued by Holder's DOJ.