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Thread: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls[W:74]

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And a system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called tyranny and mob rule. Face it, when you have a voting system its going to be based off the majority. IE Mob. I would rather have plain old mob rule than mob rule combined with tyranny.
    No. A system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called Qualified democracy.
    In order to choose a government citizenl must meet several criteria. For example, to pay taxes.

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    The principal here, which is being corrupted by various occurrences, is that each qualified voter, as in age and citizenship, each has a single vote to cast.

    Whether dead people are recorded as voting, or incorrect votes are recorded due to clerical errors, or a non-citizen votes when they should not be allowed to, that same fundamental principal is being violated.

    Requiring voters to show approved ID is one way to eliminate some of this corruption.
    A revision of the clerical procedures to reduce and / or eliminate clerical errors would be another.
    Cleaning up and validating the voter roles so that voters who have moved away, died, etc. are no longer on the rolls is yet another.

    I'd have no problem if all of those things were done to ensure that proper and accurate election results, or at least as proper and accurate as reasonably possible, were the rule rather than the exception.

    In the same way that credit extended is an expression of belief by the lender that the borrower can and will pay back the loan, it is the belief of the electorate in fair and accurate election results that gives those that are elected the authority to govern.

    Now why in the world would any reasonable person be against increasing and / or maintaining the electorate's faith and belief in fair and accurate elections and their results?

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    The principal here, which is being corrupted by various occurrences, is that each qualified voter, as in age and citizenship, each has a single vote to cast.

    Whether dead people are recorded as voting, or incorrect votes are recorded due to clerical errors, or a non-citizen votes when they should not be allowed to, that same fundamental principal is being violated.

    Requiring voters to show approved ID is one way to eliminate some of this corruption.
    A revision of the clerical procedures to reduce and / or eliminate clerical errors would be another.
    Cleaning up and validating the voter roles so that voters who have moved away, died, etc. are no longer on the rolls is yet another.

    I'd have no problem if all of those things were done to ensure that proper and accurate election results, or at least as proper and accurate as reasonably possible, were the rule rather than the exception.

    In the same way that credit extended is an expression of belief by the lender that the borrower can and will pay back the loan, it is the belief of the electorate in fair and accurate election results that gives those that are elected the authority to govern.

    Now why in the world would any reasonable person be against increasing and / or maintaining the electorate's faith and belief in fair and accurate elections and their results?
    I really hate repeating this.

    Nobody is against having to show ID to vote, per se. It's making those IDs available to everyone equally, regardless of economic status or other mitigating factors, that the law hinges on, and voter ID laws rarely if ever allow for this.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I really hate repeating this.

    Nobody is against having to show ID to vote, per se. It's making those IDs available to everyone equally, regardless of economic status or other mitigating factors, that the law hinges on, and voter ID laws rarely if ever allow for this.
    There so few things in life that you can do without ID, so many, many more instances where you have to have one, collect a welfare or unemployment benefit check or food stamps to name only a very few.

    I'd support, as in pay for, anyone not having proper ID for voting to get one. Done. Let's get over this ridiculous point of contention and move on. (Do you think that any of the congress critters in DC heard that? )

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    No. A system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called Qualified democracy.
    In order to choose a government citizenl must meet several criteria. For example, to pay taxes.
    You think using prettier words changes its nature? In the end you are justifying using mob rule by a select few to rule over those you think are not qualified enough to vote.
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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    I really hate repeating this.

    Nobody is against having to show ID to vote, per se. It's making those IDs available to everyone equally, regardless of economic status or other mitigating factors, that the law hinges on, and voter ID laws rarely if ever allow for this.
    Really? Come on, if you walk into any story and write a check they usually ask for you ID. Tell me who can't come up with enough money to buy and ID? How much is an ID, like $10?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    No. A system which doesn't let someone vote because their social status is not high enough is called Qualified democracy.
    In order to choose a government citizenl must meet several criteria. For example, to pay taxes.
    Another person who thinks it's a good idea to disenfranchise retirees, stay at home mums, volunteers and the disabled, but thinks it's a good idea for a 15 year old with a job flipping burgers to be able to vote.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Really? Come on, if you walk into any story and write a check they usually ask for you ID. Tell me who can't come up with enough money to buy and ID? How much is an ID, like $10?
    Well, in New York State a driver's license costs about 75-100 dollars just to renew. I don't remember how much it cost when I got one 20 years ago, but I know damn well the price has gone up.

    For many people, a photo ID is cost prohibitive.

    An ID to vote should be FREE. Free, no strings attached, free. Even if it costs 1 cent, that's a poll tax. And poll taxes are unconstitutional.

    So my answer to you is, I DON'T CARE who can't come up with enough money for an ID. What I care about is people having to pay to vote.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Well, in New York State a driver's license costs about 75-100 dollars just to renew. I don't remember how much it cost when I got one 20 years ago, but I know damn well the price has gone up.

    For many people, a photo ID is cost prohibitive.

    An ID to vote should be FREE. Free, no strings attached, free. Even if it costs 1 cent, that's a poll tax. And poll taxes are unconstitutional.

    So my answer to you is, I DON'T CARE who can't come up with enough money for an ID. What I care about is people having to pay to vote.
    You claim that to many it's cost prohibitive, and I ask how do you know that. You say you worry about people having to pay to vote, they are not. They are ask for proof that they are who they say they are. Anyone could walk off the street to any voting location and vote. What's to stop someone from going to another polling location and voting there; or maybe someone who isn't even a citizen from voting. How about the possibility of foreign countries sending in people to vote and interfering with our election process. We require background checks to purchase guns, but no identification to vote. Where's the logic? You can't cash a check at a bank without ID.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: 6,100 dead people on Nassau voter rolls

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Well, in New York State a driver's license costs about 75-100 dollars just to renew. I don't remember how much it cost when I got one 20 years ago, but I know damn well the price has gone up.

    For many people, a photo ID is cost prohibitive.

    An ID to vote should be FREE. Free, no strings attached, free. Even if it costs 1 cent, that's a poll tax. And poll taxes are unconstitutional.

    So my answer to you is, I DON'T CARE who can't come up with enough money for an ID. What I care about is people having to pay to vote.
    It costs a max of $13-$14 to get a NY state ID that is valid for 8-9 years. And as little as $9-$10 for a 4 to 5 year ID.

    NY State ID

    I do agree that the $100 plus for a DL is way too much. Honestly if I hadn't looked it up I wouldn't have believed you on that price. Just another reason for me to not like NY I guess. But that aside I wouldn't care if they gave ID's out for free. So long as the person applying for it can prove they are US citizens. That would be my only requirement. And if they can't? Honestly...to bad. In today's day and age the amount of people that can't get their birth certificate and are US citizens is so small that it would be statistically irrelevent in ANY election, even if they were to all vote for one party it wouldn't affect the votes that much. Add the fact that not all of them will vote for the same party really does make it a statistical improbability for them to affect any election outcome.

    On the flip side if 7-12 million illegal immigrants were to all vote (not saying they all would but I have no doubt that some do) then it would greatly affect the out come of an election. Even if they all didn't vote for the same party.

    As far as the poll tax goes, every single amendment in our constitution has exceptions. Those exceptions having been determined to be needful so that other peoples rights are not trampled by others. Yes, poll taxes designed to limit who can and cannot vote most certainly should NOT be allowed. However even if you consider making people pay $10 for a state ID as a poll tax (which I really don't considering that a state ID is and can be used for far more than just for voting, indeed you can't do a lot of things without some sort of state issued ID now a days...even get welfare) it is not a poll tax designed to keep ANY citizen from voting because you can get $10 easy by simply selling lemonade on a sidwalk. (my kid made that much just by helping another kid do it). If a person can't make $10 then i'm sure there are charities out there that would pay for it. And if not then there are always government welfare subsidies or just plainly giving out the ID's for free to those that can't afford it. With all that said I would have to say that illegal aliens voting, even the possibility of them being able to vote because there is no way to catch them, is a damn good reason to require ID's at a voting station.

    And just to note: A poll tax is a tax designed to prevent a certain class of people from voting. Which means making that "tax" so exhorbirant that that class of people cannot afford it. There isn't a single person in the US that cannot make $10 if they actually get off thier butts and do a little bit of work for as little as an hour and a half a day going by Federal minimum wage. So...an hour and a half for an ID that will last for 4-5 years...hardly an imposition on anyone.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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