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Thread: Rev. Al Sharpton leads Stand Your Ground rally in Tallahassee

  1. #41
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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Regardless of "Who" uses this law....it is a bad one in my opinion. Our society is more than violent enough, without making it legal to shoot someone.
    How about if a person is going to shoot you, would you not want it legal to shoot him first? Is a law over and above you saving your own life?
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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    Hate to say it but people have this perception based an a disinformation campaign fueled mainly by race merchants like Sharpton.
    I am not a big Al Sharpton fan, and I realize that had yet another twenty something year old black male killed a 17 year old black male in similar circumstances, Al would have been silent.

    I can also see why the Zimmerman shooting could be inflammatory to blacks. Consider the totality:
    -black teenager walking home is deemed to be "suspiscious" because somebody does not like the way he looks
    -Follower ignores police advice to leave black teenager alone
    -black teenager tries to break contact, gets followed- again
    -Black teenager gets killed. As he is dead, the shooter's word alone must be used to establish what led to the confrontation
    -Shooter walks

    Of course, this does not make Zimmerman guilty of Murder 2, nor does it make me an Al Sharpton fan, but I can aknowledge why some blacks would get upset.

  3. #43
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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Here is another SYG application that might have worked in Florida: Raul Rodriguez, Texas man, gets 40 years in prison for fatally shooting neighbor after claiming 'stand your ground' defense - CBS News

    Honestly, I dont like SYG laws as they reject Common Law Doctrine that one must make at least a token retreat in public. Though some might describe this as "fleeing crime", Common Law realized that there are an awful lot of "He said, she said Jerry Springer shooting incidents". Thus the provision to make a token, retreat.

    Such a retreat could be a simple "no" for a woman being grabbed. But... if I chose to get into a drunken discussion in a bar about what team does or does not "suck", I have more of an obligation to retreat before using force. Not with SYG though...
    With stand your ground...why do you have a gun illegally in a bar? Don't see you winning that one in a court case

    The problem with a "token retreat" is that that kind of thing can be debated in court by a slick lawyer. "You didn't try to run away from that guy who has a knife...and is bigger and faster than you? You have a gun. It isn't like he will get close enough to stab you if he chases you." And remember...all it takes is a few stupid jury members. They just may believe that lawyer who doesn't care that you were legally in the right and made a good decision...who only cares about his win to loss ratio.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  4. #44
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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I am not a big Al Sharpton fan, and I realize that had yet another twenty something year old black male killed a 17 year old black male in similar circumstances, Al would have been silent.

    I can also see why the Zimmerman shooting could be inflammatory to blacks.

    Consider the totality:
    -black teenager walking home is deemed to be "suspiscious" because somebody does not like the way he looks
    And because other people had broken into this mixed races community not long before.


    -Follower ignores police advice to leave black teenager alone
    He did make the cut back if I am not mistaken.

    black teenager tries to break contact, gets followed- again
    He couldn't cover like 100 yards in like 7 minutes? I don't think he tried real hard...or he turned back. Given the poor kid's track record of idiotic "thuggish" decisions...I would go with him making a dumb decision.

    Black teenager gets killed. As he is dead, the shooter's word alone must be used to establish what led to the confrontation
    -Shooter walks

    Of course, this does not make Zimmerman guilty of Murder 2, nor does it make me an Al Sharpton fan, but I can aknowledge why some blacks would get upset.
    Only if they only care about race. And only a dumbass would discuss "stand your ground law" over this issue...because it was not used as a defense in the case of Martin Zimmerman. Hence why I feel sharpton isn't that sharp...and is a racist
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    While on the subject of shooting someone.............................
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    He couldn't cover like 100 yards in like 7 minutes? I don't think he tried real hard...or he turned back. Given the poor kid's track record of idiotic "thuggish" decisions...I would go with him making a dumb decision.
    Same could be said of Zimmerman given his pattern of "bad luck" and "misunderstandings" with women, bosses, the police etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    He did make the cut back if I am not mistaken.
    Maybe, maybe not. What is known is that Zimmerman claimed that he was returning to his car when "X" happened. Zimmerman's claim was accepted with out alot of challenge because Martin was dead and could not give his side of the story as to what Z-man may, or may not have done.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 03-14-14 at 11:30 AM.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I am not a big Al Sharpton fan, and I realize that had yet another twenty something year old black male killed a 17 year old black male in similar circumstances, Al would have been silent.

    I can also see why the Zimmerman shooting could be inflammatory to blacks. Consider the totality:
    -black teenager walking home is deemed to be "suspiscious" because somebody does not like the way he looks
    -Follower ignores police advice to leave black teenager alone
    -black teenager tries to break contact, gets followed- again
    -black teenager attacks follower repeatidly bashing his head into the concrete
    -Black teenager gets killed. As he is dead, the shooter's word alone must be used to establish what led to the confrontation
    -Shooter walks

    Of course, this does not make Zimmerman guilty of Murder 2, nor does it make me an Al Sharpton fan, but I can aknowledge why some blacks would get upset.
    I added a step (in red) you seemed to have left out in your chronological account of the Zimmerman/Martin incident. The shear fact that you left that part out shows how the disinformation aspect of this issue has taken root. Of course blacks would get upset considering the repeated and utter fallacy of the "Trayvon was killed for buying skittles and and drink" or "Trayvon was killed for wearing a hoodie" or "Trayvon was killed because he was black." All these leave out a pretty important aspect of that the kid attacked and wound up dead (mind you, thats based on Zimmerman's account as well as the physical evidence on scene) which is unfortunately all we have. We'll never truly know how this was all initiated. I have little trust for Zimmerman and frankly think he's one of teh biggest D-bags the public has seen in a quite some time.

  8. #48
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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    I added a step (in red) you seemed to have left out in your chronological account of the Zimmerman/Martin incident. 1. The shear fact that you left that part out shows how the disinformation aspect of this issue has taken root. Of course blacks would get upset considering the repeated and utter fallacy of the "Trayvon was killed for buying skittles and and drink" or "Trayvon was killed for wearing a hoodie" or "Trayvon was killed because he was black." All these leave out a pretty important aspect of that the kid attacked and wound up dead (mind you, thats based on Zimmerman's account as well as the physical evidence on scene) which is unfortunately all we have. 2. We'll never truly know how this was all initiated. I have little trust for Zimmerman and frankly think he's one of teh biggest D-bags the public has seen in a quite some time.
    You are over emphasizing the disinformation campaign's imapct on me. I can accept the fact that Zimmerman was attacked, but I also place alot of weight on the second bold point. This is especially true because I, like you, dont trust Zimmerman's word.

    As there was no evidence to contradict Zimmerman, I would have found him innocent of Murder 2. I wish Florida law allowed a stronger Criminally Negligent homicide provision (if one wants to carry a weapon for self defense, then dont repeatedly follow / chase people simply because you dont think they "belong")

    In short, we have pretty similar views on this. This was probably an idiot alpha male shooting another idiot alpha male. Martins punishment for attacking somebody is that he is dead. If it were up to me, Zimmerman would be convicted of negligent homicide for recklessly risking an avoidable confrontation.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    You are over emphasizing the disinformation campaign's imapct on me. I can accept the fact that Zimmerman was attacked, but I also place alot of weight on the second bold point. This is especially true because I, like you, dont trust Zimmerman's word.

    As there was no evidence to contradict Zimmerman, I would have found him innocent of Murder 2. I wish Florida law allowed a stronger Criminally Negligent homicide provision (if one wants to carry a weapon for self defense, then dont repeatedly follow / chase people simply because you dont think they "belong")

    In short, we have pretty similar views on this. This was probably an idiot alpha male shooting another idiot alpha male. Martins punishment for attacking somebody is that he is dead. If it were up to me, Zimmerman would be convicted of negligent homicide for recklessly risking an avoidable confrontation.
    Yeah, thats the problem discussing this. I've gotten into heated (drunken ) arguments with some of my liberal friends over this case. Immediately usually labeled as a "fan" of this guy which I'm not. He's a d-bag who made some pretty big mistakes along the way. I, however, separate the altercation from the rest. Frankly, the kid should have just kept walking home.

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