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Thread: Rev. Al Sharpton leads Stand Your Ground rally in Tallahassee

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Because "provoke or "incite" is subjective.
    Each juror can have a different view of "reasonable person" and "reasonable fear", so just because a concept is subjective does not mean it should be struck out.

    In the end, I think most jurors use local norms (personal insults can be considered a grave provocation in rural east Texas, in Dallas, not so much) when dealing with subjective terms. This localizes justice as much as possible and is what our judicial tradition favors.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Meh. "Hundreds" of people "marched"...and there was a free barbeque afterward. For Trayvon.

    Next...

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Very true, but the Florida version of SYG lacks a direct statement that one cannot provoke or incite the victim. The Texas version has this directly written into it. In short, the problem with Florida's law may not be the concept, but the way it is written.

    It will be interesting to see if the Popcorn guy claims SYG ( I imagine that he will). Under the Texas law, the jury would be allowed to consider if his request (s) / order(s) to stop texting constituted a "provocation" to the victim. This concept in Texas could derail his SYG claim before the reasonable person analysis.

    There are of course, two very different spins on what the shooter said, how many times he said it, and what tone of voice he was using.
    Sorry. What Popcorn guy??

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Meh. "Hundreds" of people "marched"...and there was a free barbeque afterward. For Trayvon.

    Next...
    Aww, if I had know about it I would have gone for the food.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Regardless of "Who" uses this law....it is a bad one in my opinion. Our society is more than violent enough, without making it legal to shoot someone.
    So people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against violent criminals? The should be meek, cowardly and cooperative? If you truly believe that, then do you carry much cash around with you?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Regardless of "Who" uses this law....it is a bad one in my opinion. Our society is more than violent enough, without making it legal to shoot someone.
    Better to die a victim then kill a criminal!
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Sorry. What Popcorn guy??
    This one: Police: Texting argument in movie theater sparks fatal shooting - CNN.com

    The judge rejected his request for a pre tial application of the SYG law. Apparently, he can still argue it at the trial though.

    This shooting, and numerous other "he said, she said" type shootings illustrate why the directly stated Texas provisions is so important. Whereas Florida's law appears to be ambigous, Texas law clearly states one cant provoke confrontations, then shoot one's way out.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 03-11-14 at 06:24 PM.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    This one: Police: Texting argument in movie theater sparks fatal shooting - CNN.com

    The judge rejected his request for a pre tial application of the SYG law. Apparently, he can still argue it at the trial though.
    This shooting, and numerous other "he said, she said" type shootings illustrate why the directly stated Texas provisions is so important.

    Whereas Florida's law appears to by ambigous, Texas law clearly states you cant provoke confrontations while knowing you can fall back on a weapon.
    Good Lord. Thank you. I hadn't heard about it. Over texting. Unbelievable. And the guy tries to get it dismissed on SYG?? Thank heaven it was dismissed.

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Good Lord. Thank you. I hadn't heard about it. Over texting. Unbelievable. And the guy tries to get it dismissed on SYG?? Thank heaven it was dismissed.
    Here is another SYG application that might have worked in Florida: Raul Rodriguez, Texas man, gets 40 years in prison for fatally shooting neighbor after claiming 'stand your ground' defense - CBS News

    Honestly, I dont like SYG laws as they reject Common Law Doctrine that one must make at least a token retreat in public. Though some might describe this as "fleeing crime", Common Law realized that there are an awful lot of "He said, she said Jerry Springer shooting incidents". Thus the provision to make a token, retreat.

    Such a retreat could be a simple "no" for a woman being grabbed. But... if I chose to get into a drunken discussion in a bar about what team does or does not "suck", I have more of an obligation to retreat before using force. Not with SYG though...

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    Re: New Attack on Stand Your Ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    You'd be speculating but I doubt that would fly in Florida. Just google it, there are a bunch of instances where SYG defense is attempted in very similar scenarios and the individual either pleas out or is convicted. Hate to say it but people have this perception based an a disinformation campaign fueled mainly by race merchants like Sharpton.

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