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Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148:245]

Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

americanwoman said:
If it was your kid and you felt like that I would hope you would have been there when the first newsletter was sent home.

See this parent seemingly didn't give a **** about the policy until his little angel violated it.
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Do you have any idea how ingrained that gesture is for people? It's not just about guns, it's also about 'bingo!' It's also about 'on the money!' it means a million different things and it's as automatic as nodding or pointing or shrugging for some people.

Zero tolerance is mindless bs and serves only to reduce thinking and liability for organizations and institutions.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Top Cat said:
Guns in schools are no laughing matter, I suspect we can all agree on that? While a 3 day suspension is ridiculous, a consequence of some sort is fair. I suspect the true spirit of the idea was to remove even "joking" about guns from schools. I have no problem with that idea whatsoever.
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And some of us liberals see it as completely irrational to teach kids to fear guns and that there is something 'morally' wrong with guns and owning them.

Guns are a part of our history and many of us enjoy them and see them as part of our future. Guns are not inherently wrong.

And it's irrational to fear guns differently than we fear cars, since cars wrack up higher death and injury stats and kids are exposed to them on a daily basis. (And yeah....people dont want to hear us comparing guns to cars...well it's completely relevant comparison, all the more evidence of the fact that the fear is based on perception (cars good, cars necessary/guns bad, guns unnecessary) not reality.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
Where are you getting this ridiculous hyperbole that asking children to obey rules in a school setting is treating them like idiots?
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Suspending a child over an imaginary gun is certainly treating them like an idiot. Im sure we can agree on that, right? :roll:
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

I think suspending a kid over an imaginary gun is dumb and that common sense isn’t that common anymore. If the school districts don’t like this zero-tolerance, are they working to change the law? Are the parents? I like Kal’Stang’s point about “little rebellions.”

But I also think that expecting—not asking—students to obey rules in a school setting isn’t an option; it’s how it is and should be. They’re not going to have options on how they drive either, so welcome to the real world, where you follow the rules or face the consequences. If you don’t like the rules, work to change them. It’s just depressing when the so-called “grownups” in charge aren’t using adult common sense.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

PoS said:
Suspending a child over an imaginary gun is certainly treating them like an idiot. Im sure we can agree on that, right? :roll:
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What you call an imaginary gun is a threat of possible violence according to others. Can you agree on that?
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

PoS said:
Well anyone who wants to treat kids like idiots shouldnt be anywhere near them. When I tell my child to follow a rule I carefully explain to him why its important and sensible to do so.
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And that is what schools do with kids at the start of the year. In addition, in my classes every student was given a written list of my own classroom rules and procedures as well as their rights which not only they signed but their parents did also.
 
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Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

americanwoman said:
Hmmm kinda a silly policy but the kid can't say he wasn't warned and there does need to be consequences for not following school policy. I wonder if the father even bothered to read the three newsletters sent home about it.
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SO you agree with the indoctrination centers AKA schools? so you think that school having a policy as stupid as this is ok?
Question where did these kids get their gun info from? I am 99% sure it is from the BOOB tube. we need to stop the gun violence on TV FIRST.
Drug usage also needs to be removed.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
What you call an imaginary gun is a threat of possible violence according to others. Can you agree on that?
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Are you serious here? I mean how old was the kid? 6? I'm sure his arsenal of water pistols, or GO JOES isn't a huge threat...:roll:
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
And that is what schools do with kids at the start of the year. In addition, in my classes every student was given a written list of my own classroom rules and procedures as well as their rights which not only they signed but their parents did also.
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I bet those rights are not their constitutional rights correct? Nice teaching them wrongly most likely never came into your thinking at all huh?
if you love your children and want them to be brought up correctly home school them.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
What you call an imaginary gun is a threat of possible violence according to others. Can you agree on that?
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Dont be ridiculous! A kid using his finger as an imaginary gun is play, not a threat. You of all people should know that. :doh
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

votemout said:
SO you agree with the indoctrination centers AKA schools? so you think that school having a policy as stupid as this is ok?
Question where did these kids get their gun info from? I am 99% sure it is from the BOOB tube. we need to stop the gun violence on TV FIRST.
Drug usage also needs to be removed.
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Do people even read what I write? :lol: Where did I say it was okay? When I told the parents to get off their fat lazy ass and go do something about it instead of not doing **** about it until their kid gets suspended. If you get warnings your kid is doing something against policy don't complain when he gets suspended for doing it when you did not do anything to fight the policy. Guns has zero to do with this and is everything about parental involvement to fight against policies like this.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

americanwoman said:
Do people even read what I write? :lol: Where did I say it was okay? When I told the parents to get off their fat lazy ass and go do something about it instead of not doing **** about it until their kid gets suspended. If you get warnings your kid is doing something against policy don't complain when he gets suspended for doing it when you did not do anything to fight the policy. Guns has zero to do with this and is everything about parental involvement to fight against policies like this.
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Those fat lazy ass people that work all day to pay your sorry ass salary? Do these parents know how you really feel about them? I cant believe you are a teacher!
I hope you dont teach english.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

votemout said:
I bet those rights are not their constitutional rights correct? Nice teaching them wrongly most likely never came into your thinking at all huh?
if you love your children and want them to be brought up correctly home school them.
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I taught Government for the most part. You can bet your life that ones Constitutional rights was a major part of that course.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

votemout said:
Those fat lazy ass people that work all day to pay your sorry ass salary? Do these parents know how you really feel about them? I cant believe you are a teacher!
I hope you dont teach english.
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I am not a teacher. Wtf are you talking about?
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

PoS said:
Dont be ridiculous! A kid using his finger as an imaginary gun is play, not a threat. You of all people should know that. :doh
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Nor is drawing ones thumb from ear to ear across the throat. Is there any doubt about what that means?
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

americanwoman said:
I am not a teacher. Wtf are you talking about?
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Somehow you are being targeted by the hate public education group. Its okay - they also have no idea wft they are talking about either.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

PoS said:
Suspending a child over an imaginary gun is certainly treating them like an idiot. Im sure we can agree on that, right? :roll:
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An idiot? No. A potential danger to the student body? Yes.

That's why I think the policy goes overboard. Pointing it another student's head would perhaps warrant an investigation to ensure that it wasn't an actual threat. Immediate suspension? I wouldn't think it's worth it.
 
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Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Moot said:
We never played cowboys and indians at school and Ill bet most people didnt, either. That was something you played in your back yard or an open field, but not at school. Nobody took their toy guns or dollies to school...thats stupid.
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We didn't play cowboys and indians or cops and robbers, but our play resembled what was popular on television for our age. Play fighting was a regular feature of our recesses.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
And in many regards they certainly are. Kids in school get away with tone of things that adults would be fired for on the job or at least disciplined or suspended for.
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Like?

haymarket said:
Children have rules which apply to their particular station in life and in the environment they find themselves in. School is one such example.
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Yep they do. Forbidding them to play a certain harmless game should not be one of them.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
What you call an imaginary gun is a threat of possible violence according to others. Can you agree on that?
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Nope.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

haymarket said:
What you call an imaginary gun is a threat of possible violence according to others. Can you agree on that?
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However, whenever the student in question is severely punished by the school system for what it perceived to be a threat, when it wasn't, you invite a great many problems to the table. There are many students that may be disproportionately impacted due to what is more a problem of social etiquette than violent intent.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Fiddytree said:
An idiot? No. A potential danger to the student body? Yes.
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Completely absurd. That'd be like you playing air guitar for an hour and assuming you could fill in for Van Halen.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Kal'Stang said:
Like?
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Many bosses would fire an employee for the sin of talking back or trying to upstage them or just being insubordinate. Teachers see this nearly each and every day.

Attendance is another area. In my high school where I taught, the average student was absent a bit over 30 times - a semester as there was no district wide attendance policy. That works out to sixt absneces or more in a year. That would get you fired on most jobs.

I hope that helps.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Gipper said:
Completely absurd. That'd be like you playing air guitar for an hour and assuming you could fill in for Van Halen.
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It is absurd, but that's what zero-tolerance policies presume. The wider the zero-tolerance policy becomes, the more behaviors become presumed for ill intent.
 
Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

Fiddytree said:
However, whenever the student in question is severely punished by the school system for what it perceived to be a threat, when it wasn't, you invite a great many problems to the table. There are many students that may be disproportionately impacted due to what is more a problem of social etiquette than violent intent.
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I can see your point and would concede that zero tolerance can result in miscarriages of justice. But again, lets get back to why the policy was instituted in the first place and we can see why districts all over America rushed to the policy.
 
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