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Thread: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended [W:148:245]

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    (1) I spent the last three years working in the Michigan legislature and there were times I shared your frustration. However, there are honest ones and I worked with them.
    I have often found that when someone thinks that another politician is "honest" it is more often than not because that politicians shares their views.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    (2) In a nation of 315 million people, of course there is going to be opinion either way on most issues. My point was a serious organized effort and evidence of it.
    Organization of such things costs money. Something most people that send kids to public school cannot afford. So who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    (3) Little rebellions may indeed have a role in some situations. I am of the opinion - having spent 33 years in the public school system - that rules are better challenged and changed by going through established procedures - both on the student level and on the parental level with both the school and the Board who made the rules in the first place. It has been my experience that in school rebellions are not looked upon favorably and rarely get the results they strive for. But that is just my experience.
    You're a statist haymarket. Of course you think this.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    (4) Again, a policy that you judge to be "idiotic" has been judged by others as wise and necessary. Again, there is a way for parents to challenge this without using their kids as pawns and telling them to break the rules to advance the parents agenda.
    Mob rules is 9 times out of 10 not wise. Individual people are often smart. Mobs are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    (5) what does culture of the Japanese have to do with one national standard in the USA?
    You're the one that said that you would prefer a system like the Japanese has since it has given "amazing results". It's relatively singular culture is why it works there. It never would here. The US has too varied a culture comparitively.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    (6) You asked for reasons and I gave you some that may be in the minds of the advocates. No more and no less than that.
    Yep you did, of which I am thankful. And I commented on them. No more, no less.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In the end, some parents felt that it was threatening to their child for another child to make a motion to them that imitated a gun shooting at them. You are free to feel that is going too far, but for some obviously it was not going too far.
    And they can feel that way all that they want. But their feelings should not interfere with my childs rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am sorry but I do not watch Dr. Phil so I cannot comment about your statement in that area.
    You may not have. But you definitely said things that were along his lines. But then that is to be expected. Alot of idiots listened to him and came up with their own versions of what he said and touted it as their own. So you probably have heard his stuff without even realizing it.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  2. #352
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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Nope.
    So it is impossible for any child to take the motion of a hand being imitated as a gun fired at them as a threat? And you know this how exactly as it puts you in the mind of every kid in America on the receiving end of such a thing.
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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It is absurd, but that's what zero-tolerance policies presume. The wider the zero-tolerance policy becomes, the more behaviors become presumed for ill intent.
    Are we that Orwellian now? I weep for America in the future.

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I can see your point and would concede that zero tolerance can result in miscarriages of justice. But again, lets get back to why the policy was instituted in the first place and we can see why districts all over America rushed to the policy.
    Many of us know why the policies were put in place, but similarly reminding people about what student body populations become disproportionately punished (we see this dramatically impact students with emotional disorders or behavioral disorders and students of color) and what traditionally-accepted behaviors have become barred is perhaps even more important considering the lack of school violence in comparison with the number of students that have been more severely punished as a result. If students can be removed from the educational setting, placed under arrest, and even becoming separated from families from such policies, they do need to receive criticism.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 03-08-14 at 03:25 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So it is impossible for any child to take the motion of a hand being imitated as a gun fired at them as a threat? And you know this how exactly as it puts you in the mind of every kid in America on the receiving end of such a thing.
    You wanna criminalize angry looks now too? Maybe we can take "staring daggers" at someone and translate it to an actual knife attack. It's the only logical step, right?

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What you call an imaginary gun is a threat of possible violence according to others. Can you agree on that?
    Only by those that want to erase all sense of independence and have an agenda against guns...that much I would agree on.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post


    You're a statist haymarket. Of course you think this.



    Mob rules is 9 times out of 10 not wise. Individual people are often smart. Mobs are not.
    Statist? How does you calling silly names out of the right wing playbook further any debate. Unless you are a anarchist, you to believe in the necessity of the state. So lets stop the nonsense.

    Mob rule? Who is supporting mob rule?

    It seems that with these two things you have now put reason and rational discussion aside in favor of the usual far right tactics.

    as to the Japanese system:


    You're the one that said that you would prefer a system like the Japanese has since it has given "amazing results". It's relatively singular culture is why it works there. It never would here. The US has too varied a culture comparitively.
    You said that the first time. Again, I ask you to explain this as I see no reason Americans cannot have an American standard across America for an American system of public education for Americans.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I taught Government for the most part. You can bet your life that ones Constitutional rights was a major part of that course.
    I've seen your beliefs on what peoples rights are Haymarket. Suffice it to say that your version and mine are different.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Only by those that want to erase all sense of independence and have an agenda against guns...that much I would agree on.
    Perhaps there might be a particle of what you say. I am more than willing to accept that in a nation of over 300 million people, agendas like that do exist. The opposite also exists and this thread is ample evidence of it.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Ohio Student Points Finger Like Gun, Is Suspended

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nor is drawing ones thumb from ear to ear across the throat. Is there any doubt about what that means?
    Huge difference here....kids have been playing with imaginary weapons in purely play for thousands of years. Drawing ones thumb/finger across your throat from ear to ear however has been universally considered a threat for the same amount of time.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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