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Thread: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

  1. #111
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Nice try to change the subject and turn the focus around. This thread is about the Ukraine and how Obama is handling it, nothing else.

    He's doing just fine so far IMO.

    You critiqued my comments about a different topic.

    Regarding the Ukraine, though, the USA is involved in a legitimate treaty with the Ukraine to defend the integrity of its borders.

    Of course, Obama has found the authorization to ignore law and responsibility under the law, so tho swill mean nothing to him.

    Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online

    treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
    Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
    Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
    The revelation comes as reports suggest the Kremlin was moving up to 2,000 troops across the Black Sea from Novorossiysk to their fleet base at Sevastopol.
    At least 20 men wearing the uniform of the Russian fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in a standoff near the port yesterday.


    Read more: Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  2. #112
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You said his goal was to weaken the US, though. Are you saying that was wrong?


    Upon reading your comments, I had an epiphany. He seemingly has no goals regarding the betterment of the country or the standing of the USA among nations. If he has no goals regarding the execution of his duties and responsibilities to the country, he has no goals, including that one.

    Yes, because of the enlightenment that I have received from your comments, I can say that I was wrong in saying that.

    I also asked if you could please define and describe his goals if you think he has any. Do you agree with my epiphany?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  3. #113
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    You critiqued my comments about a different topic.

    Regarding the Ukraine, though, the USA is involved in a legitimate treaty with the Ukraine to defend the integrity of its borders.

    Of course, Obama has found the authorization to ignore law and responsibility under the law, so tho swill mean nothing to him.

    Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online

    treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
    Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
    Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
    The revelation comes as reports suggest the Kremlin was moving up to 2,000 troops across the Black Sea from Novorossiysk to their fleet base at Sevastopol.
    At least 20 men wearing the uniform of the Russian fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in a standoff near the port yesterday.


    Read more: Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    So you want nuclear war with Russia to honor a treaty?

    Just a suggestion... seems like it might be more prudent to explore other routes of conflict resolution before we start gearing up for the apocalypse.

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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Upon reading your comments, I had an epiphany. He seemingly has no goals regarding the betterment of the country or the standing of the USA among nations. If he has no goals regarding the execution of his duties and responsibilities to the country, he has no goals, including that one.

    Yes, because of the enlightenment that I have received from your comments, I can say that I was wrong in saying that.

    I also asked if you could please define and describe his goals if you think he has any. Do you agree with my epiphany?
    Oh okay, cool. No, I don't.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #115
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Putin isn't anywhere near the level of Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot. There only commonality here that is even reasonable is his land grab based upon the ethnicity of the population. His claim that he is protecting Russians is obviously bull****, it's an excuse to make sure he doesn't lose control of Crimea. Let's face it, he's already lost control of Ukraine.

    But he's not mass murdering, he's not deporting thousands based upon their ethnicity or religion, he's not blitzing across Europe (because he simply doesn't have that ability). The comparisons to Hitler are only slightly less ludicrous than comparing Obama or Bush to Hitler.
    I think those comparisons refer to Hitler 1938 and its land grab on Austria and the Sudeten within Czechoslovakia. At that time, Hitler had not been genocidal yet either.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  6. #116
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    So you want nuclear war with Russia to honor a treaty?

    Just a suggestion... seems like it might be more prudent to explore other routes of conflict resolution before we start gearing up for the apocalypse.


    I recommended no course of action.

    I do find it interesting that no American official has brought this up.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Oh okay, cool. No, I don't.

    I'm glad we have that settled.

    What are the goals of the president?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    I recommended no course of action.

    I do find it interesting that no American official has brought this up.
    So you just want to complain about Obama not honoring this treaty without considering the implications that come with it.

  9. #119
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    So you just want to complain about Obama not honoring this treaty without considering the implications that come with it.


    Just an observation on the weakness of the country at this time and the absence of any integrity as a result. A crisis does not build character. It reveals it. We are being revealed right now.

    As a character in a poem once said, "A promise made is a debt unpaid."

    The Ukraine gave up it's nukes based on the promise of Great Britain and the USA to guarantee its territorial integrity.

    If the Ukraine had those nukes today instead of a promise to be honored by a paper tiger, the Russians would not be in Crimea.

    The Russians have no way to calculate how Obama's promised "flexibility" will will reveal itself in the future, but they do have the ability to watch and understand what results it has produced in the recent past.

    Do you think the other allies of the USA are watching and wondering if the country that used to flex its muscles will now flex only its abilities?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  10. #120
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    Re: World War 3 possible Ukraine-Russia?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    I'm glad we have that settled.

    What are the goals of the president?
    Recovering the economy.

    Protecting American interests abroad.

    The usual.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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