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Thread: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

  1. #41
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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The old Soviet Union was defeated and chastened by a strong US pres (Reagan). Now they are rebuilding under a very weak US pres. ( obama).
    You're dodging. Eisenhower was hardly a weak president, nor was Bush 43, yet Russia acted defiantly towards US interests and statements of condemnation under both. As usual, you're dumbing down an issue to fit your entirely political agenda.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    What I've seen from this thread is the following:

    One side thinks this is Obama's fault. Another side has given multiple reasons how that thinking is utterly absurd. The first side sticks fingers in ears chanting "na na na na na na, I can't hear you, so I'll just keep repeating my defeated position ad nauseam".

    Is that pretty much how this thread has gone?

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    We can't do anything militarily and I would not propose we do. The only reason Putin is doing this though is because he perceives obama as weak and easy to push around. Obama has thrown away all our leverage with his talk of a smaller military and less nukes. If we had a hawk pres trying to get approval for a larger military and better nukes Putin wouldn't do this because it would push congress over to our presidents side. Reagan defeated the Soviet Union with his strength and obama is letting it rebuild with his weakness.
    You need an update on your hero, the Gipper. I put him on the same pedestal as the initiator of the GW Bush Great Depression. What would Reagan do? Don't forget Chile and Allende! Granada? I, personally, think USA CIA machinations are behind the Ukrainian crisis and I also think the CIA has become a rogue agency intertwined in all of our Diplomatic dialogue. Heads need to roll. If I were Putin, I'd have done exactly the same thing and for the benefit of Ukrainians as a whole, not foreign manipulated protesters. For krissakes, we're the ones that created this problem and now we get flashback. Obama had bettrer get teh CIA under control, or like Jimmy Carter, try to fire them all.

    http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madr...reagan-gave-go

    "Soon after taking office in 1981, President Ronald Reagan’s national security team agreed to supply military aid to the brutal right-wing regime in Guatemala to pursue the goal of exterminating not only “Marxist guerrillas” but their “civilian support mechanisms,” according to a newly disclosed document from the National Archives. Over the next several years, the military assistance from the Reagan administration helped the Guatemalan army do just that, engaging in the slaughter of some 100,000 people, including what a truth commission deemed genocide against the Mayan Indians in the northern highlands. Recently discovered documents at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California, also reveal that Reagan’s White House was reaching out to Israel in a scheme to circumvent congressional restrictions on military equipment for the Guatemalan military. In 1983, national security aide Oliver North (who later became a central figure in the Iran-Contra scandal) reported in a memo that Reagan’s Deputy National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane (another key Iran-Contra figure) was approaching Israel over how to deliver 10 UH-1H helicopters to Guatemala to give the army greater mobility in its counterinsurgency war. According to these documents that I found at the Reagan library – and other records declassified in the late 1990s – it’s also clear that Reagan and his administration were well aware of the butchery underway in Guatemala and elsewhere in Central America."
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 03-02-14 at 10:34 AM.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    You're dodging. Eisenhower was hardly a weak president, nor was Bush 43, yet Russia acted defiantly towards US interests and statements of condemnation under both. As usual, you're dumbing down an issue to fit your entirely political agenda.
    He's hardly alone on that note. I could list 10 posters off my head posting the same ultrapartisan horse**** that he is.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    At the end of the day, the only thing Russia is considering when doing something like this is how much the rest of the modern world will care. US alone does not a threat make, because our allies aren't willing to endure war because Russia wants to recapture territory.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    I really doubt any of that would be on the mind of a Putin. The only hinderance to him would be if you are willing to send our troops into the Ukraine. If not, then Russia hardly gives a crap what the rest of the world thinks.

    Sitting around flexing your muscles it not going to intimidate Putin.
    Obama took everything off the table except direct military action. It is his only card left to play and putin knows he won't play it. Check mate, point set match. Game over.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You need an update on your hero, the Gipper. I put him on the same pedestal as the initiator of the GW Bush Great Depression. What would Reagan do? Don't forget Chile and Allende! Granada? I, personally, think USA CIA machinations are behind the Ukrainian crisis and I also think the CIA has become a rogue agency intertwined in all of our Diplomatic dialogue. Heads need to roll. If I were Putin, I'd have done exactly the same thing and for the benefit of Ukrainians as a whole, not foreign manipulated protesters. For krissakes, we're the ones that created this problem and now we get flashback. Obama had bettrer get teh CIA under control, or like Jimmy Carter, try to fire them all.

    New Documents Show Reagan Gave Go-Ahead To Mayan Genocide | Crooks and Liars

    "Soon after taking office in 1981, President Ronald Reagan’s national security team agreed to supply military aid to the brutal right-wing regime in Guatemala to pursue the goal of exterminating not only “Marxist guerrillas” but their “civilian support mechanisms,” according to a newly disclosed document from the National Archives. Over the next several years, the military assistance from the Reagan administration helped the Guatemalan army do just that, engaging in the slaughter of some 100,000 people, including what a truth commission deemed genocide against the Mayan Indians in the northern highlands. Recently discovered documents at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California, also reveal that Reagan’s White House was reaching out to Israel in a scheme to circumvent congressional restrictions on military equipment for the Guatemalan military. In 1983, national security aide Oliver North (who later became a central figure in the Iran-Contra scandal) reported in a memo that Reagan’s Deputy National Security Advisor Robert McFarlane (another key Iran-Contra figure) was approaching Israel over how to deliver 10 UH-1H helicopters to Guatemala to give the army greater mobility in its counterinsurgency war. According to these documents that I found at the Reagan library – and other records declassified in the late 1990s – it’s also clear that Reagan and his administration were well aware of the butchery underway in Guatemala and elsewhere in Central America."
    Reagan is not my hero and had his faults but in the end he did win the cold war.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    At the end of the day, the only thing Russia is considering when doing something like this is how much the rest of the modern world will care. US alone does not a threat make, because our allies aren't willing to endure war because Russia wants to recapture territory.
    You keep missing the point here. If we had a pres pushing congress to build a super military instead of one pushing them to tear it down Putin would be discouraged from military adventurism instead of encouraged as he is now.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    What I've seen from this thread is the following:

    One side thinks this is Obama's fault. Another side has given multiple reasons how that thinking is utterly absurd. The first side sticks fingers in ears chanting "na na na na na na, I can't hear you, so I'll just keep repeating my defeated position ad nauseam".

    Is that pretty much how this thread has gone?
    You see what you want to see.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Reagan is not my hero and had his faults but in the end he did win the cold war.
    No, HE didn't. He played a part in it. So did Lech Walesa, Mikhail Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II, and a host of other people. Reagan did not soar down from the skies on the Golden Eagle of Republican and singlehandedly destroy the USSR -- in fact, the Berlin Wall and the USSR were both still standing when he left office.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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