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Thread: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Has The United States invaded other countries and murdered millions of people? Is the POTUS a former KGB colonel, that wishes to go back to the days of The Iron Curtain?
    Our stated reasons for opposing what the Russians are doing in Crimea are hypocritical. We've spent the last 60 years toppling governments, some democratically elected, and invading nations for purely geopolitical, ideological, and economic reasons. The Russians are no different. If we're going to oppose it then we should at least be honest about the reason(s) why. That said, Crimea became an autonomous region from Ukraine for a reason and the people who live there are entitled to the same choice of destiny as those in Kiev who overthrew Yanukovych. It seems to me that they have made their choice. Besides, what do you expect us to do about it? Occupy Ukraine and stand toe-to-toe with the Russians to see who blinks?

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Our stated reasons for opposing what the Russians are doing in Crimea are hypocritical. We've spent the last 60 years toppling governments, some democratically elected, and invading nations for purely geopolitical, ideological, and economic reasons. The Russians are no different. If we're going to oppose it then we should at least be honest about the reason(s) why. That said, Crimea became an autonomous region from Ukraine for a reason and the people who live there are entitled to the same choice of destiny as those in Kiev who overthrew Yanukovych. It seems to me that they have made their choice. Besides, what do you expect us to do about it? Occupy Ukraine and stand toe-to-toe with the Russians to see who blinks?
    By that logic, we should have never went to war against the Nazis. Right?

    Look, the hypocrisy argument went out the window the day after you people started using it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    By that logic, we should have never went to war against the Nazis. Right?

    Look, the hypocrisy argument went out the window the day after you people started using it.
    You do realize that while history can show us many ways in which we can improve our future decisions, not EVERYTHING can be compared to world war 2?

    You do this absolutely every single thread regarding anything warfare including Afghanistan which is just folly.

    Trying to come to a conclusion about which steps to take in any war using WW2 solely as the reference is like the Generals in France before Germany invaded in WW2 using WW1 solely as a reference for defense... and we all know how that turned out.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    By that logic, we should have never went to war against the Nazis. Right?
    If you recall, Nazi Germany declared war on the United States not the other way around so your point is moot.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    You do realize that while history can show us many ways in which we can improve our future decisions, not EVERYTHING can be compared to world war 2?

    You do this absolutely every single thread regarding anything warfare including Afghanistan which is just folly.

    Trying to come to a conclusion about which steps to take in any war using WW2 solely as the reference is like the Generals in France before Germany invaded in WW2 using WW1 solely as a reference for defense... and we all know how that turned out.
    WW2 is the only war that you people agree was worth fighting. Your hatred of America and ignorance of history leaves me no choice but to use WW2 repeatively.

    Besides that, WW2 is a great example of how NOT to handle foreign affairs. You people keep insisting that repeating the same mistakes made prior to WW2 is the way to go. Again, it's because of your ignorance of history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    If you recall, Nazi Germany declared war on the United States not the other way around so your point is moot.
    Doesn't really matter, since there's no way Germany could have acted on that declaration of war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Doesn't really matter, since there's no way Germany could have acted on that declaration of war.
    I think you're mistaken and you're also missing the point. Back then, the United States had the balls to admit that it only cared about democracy and an inalienable right of a people to shape their own destiny so long as it benefited the United States and the offending parties left us alone. These days, we lie through our teeth. Why should we care about Russia maintaining the status quo in Crimea? If our foreign policy motivations are solely based around some inalienable right of a people to shape their own destiny then why impose the choices of the people in Kiev on an autonomous region which clearly does not want to go down the same path?
    Last edited by Napoleon; 03-04-14 at 08:47 PM.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm just curious. Although this wouldn't be an exact parallel, do you think we'd listen to Russia if we sent troops into Mexico to protect American interests there?

    I don't.
    Great point, thanks for posting it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I think you're mistaken, but you're also missing the point. Back then, the United States had the balls to admit that it only cared about democracy and an inalienable right of a people to shape their own destiny so long as it benefited the United States and the offending parties left us alone. These days, we lie through our teeth.
    No, the United States is still the bright shining beacon on the hill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Russia Moves to Deploy Troops in Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    WW2 is the only war that you people agree was worth fighting. Your hatred of America and ignorance of history leaves me no choice but to use WW2 repeatively.
    The only hatred of America I have is imagined by you.

    And it's pretty rich you saying I'm ignorant of history when you're one of the worst revisionists on the site.

    WW2 has no bearing on the current situation or Afghanistan.

    The history of the Soviet Union and the Cold War are far more important lenses to view the situation through.

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