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Thread: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

  1. #121
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    Re: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    That does not matter-change from within is one thing-inviting another nation to invade is entirely another. There were pro-nazi Poles and pro-soviet poles in WW2.
    It's also completely different when the individuals largely in favor of the invading forces occupy a geographically separate, mostly autonomous region, as is the case in Crimea.

    That was not the case in Poland, so the analogy is false.

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    Re: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    This is the problem-how many times has he had his bluff called? He's lost credibility and squandered his political capital. Im ashamed at how easily the world punks our president. He's truly out of his league.
    Smart people already knew that Obama's talk about red lines, threats to Iran, etc., was cheap; there's nothing surprising there

    We knew this because Obama is sensible and never had any intention of doing anything about Iran's nuclear program, or about the internal conflict in Syria. The only reason he said, and continues to say "there will be consequences, they've crossed a red line, we cannot allow", etc. is just to pacify Red State America. That's it.

    The tough talk, even if it's cheap, is like a security blanket for these folk, who are just scared of anything they don't understand and just want the US military to "kick butt" everywhere.

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    Re: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    A region's stance does not change the sovereignty of their nation, if Texans for example were mostly pro-secession would you expect the rest of the Union to simply accept that and let them go? How about the entire south?
    Good 'ol TX--the selective freedom state--where you can carry a gun anywhere but you can't buy a Tesla.
    Last edited by solletica; 03-03-14 at 10:32 AM.

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    Re: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The US govt. has zero credibility when it comes to lecturing other nations about international law and territorial sovereignty, since it continues its practice of repeatedly bombing and invading other countries that don't attack the US.

    It's also lamentable that US taxpayer dollars are being used to fund/subsidize Russian opposition groups in the Ukraine, another thing you won't hear rush or the mainstream media talk about.

    Putin's actions were wrong--he should have pursued a diplomatic sol'n that took into account the will of the Ukrainian people as well as those in Crimea before deciding to use force, but Putin has demonstrated a pattern of always preferring to use force.

    But the key issue here is that the story isn't as one-sided as the fauxnews commentators and rush, hannity, etc. want to portray--Russia is not invading a region because it's just a mean 'ol country that likes to take advantage of people; rather, their invasion has largely been welcomed by Crimeans. That wouldn't be such a big deal, except for the fact that those aforementioned media personalities/outlets are the only source from which conservatives get their world view.
    What has this got to do with republicans? Or Democrats? Or any political party for that matter? Your continuous use of mentioning rush, "faux" news, hannity etc etc is about nothing more than your political bias showing and is an attempt at nothing more than downgrading anyone that doesn't see it your way. Sorry but thats not going to work with me. I don't like either party.

    To the next point. Is the US all angelic and innocent? HELLZ NO! But that is no excuse to allow Russia to occupy another countries territory. So trying to play the old "but X is no better so you shouldn't be saying anything" game is not going to get you anywheres.

    Third point. If the Crimeaians want to be a part of Russia and agree with Russian policies then they should move to Russia. Using them as an excuse to take over another country's territory is pathetic and opens up a whole can of worms that no sane country or individual really wants. That should be obvious considering this is the second time that Russia is trying to take over another country's territory on the same premise.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    What has this got to do with republicans? Or Democrats? Or any political party for that matter? Your continuous use of mentioning rush, "faux" news, hannity etc etc is about nothing more than your political bias showing and is an attempt at nothing more than downgrading anyone that doesn't see it your way. Sorry but thats not going to work with me. I don't like either party.

    To the next point. Is the US all angelic and innocent? HELLZ NO! But that is no excuse to allow Russia to occupy another countries territory. So trying to play the old "but X is no better so you shouldn't be saying anything" game is not going to get you anywheres.

    Third point. If the Crimeaians want to be a part of Russia and agree with Russian policies then they should move to Russia. Using them as an excuse to take over another country's territory is pathetic and opens up a whole can of worms that no sane country or individual really wants. That should be obvious considering this is the second time that Russia is trying to take over another country's territory on the same premise.
    As a practical matter, there's nothing Obama can do about it and that's largely not because of Obama's policies but because of the stupidity of Congress (mostly the GOP, but Congress in general) and its pro-Zionist leanings.

    Yes, that's correct. If Obama does something to try to deter Russia (sanctions, freezing of assets of high-ranking Russian officials, businessmen), all Russia has to do is turn around and deliver its latest, greatest air-defense systems (S-4) to Iran.

    And voila, Congress will back down and retract the freezes, sanctions, etc. because it's soooooooo desperate to do anything at all to coddle the Israeli regime. So the US govt. doesn't really care about international law, invasions, etc.; it really just cares about propping up the aggressive Israeli regime and defending its interests at all costs, and because Putin knows that, he has an ace in the hole--you do anything to me, I'll make Iran's life easier.

    And that's the fundamental problem--the reason why the US is seen as weak on the international stage. In the past 50 years, in spite of its bellicose pro-freedom rhetoric, the US govt. has demonstrated by its actions that it doesn't really care about freedom; it just cares about maintaining its oil interests and the Israeli regime at all costs and uses "fighting for freedom, democracy" as a ruse to make its invasions popular among the gullible US public.

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    Re: Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    As a practical matter, there's nothing Obama can do about it and that's largely not because of Obama's policies but because of the stupidity of Congress (mostly the GOP, but Congress in general) and its pro-Zionist leanings.

    Yes, that's correct. If Obama does something to try to deter Russia (sanctions, freezing of assets of high-ranking Russian officials, businessmen), all Russia has to do is turn around and deliver its latest, greatest air-defense systems (S-4) to Iran.

    And voila, Congress will back down and retract the freezes, sanctions, etc. because it's soooooooo desperate to do anything at all to coddle the Israeli regime. So the US govt. doesn't really care about international law, invasions, etc.; it really just cares about propping up the aggressive Israeli regime and defending its interests at all costs, and because Putin knows that, he has an ace in the hole--you do anything to me, I'll make Iran's life easier.

    And that's the fundamental problem--the reason why the US is seen as weak on the international stage. In the past 50 years, in spite of its bellicose pro-freedom rhetoric, the US govt. has demonstrated by its actions that it doesn't really care about freedom; it just cares about maintaining its oil interests and the Israeli regime at all costs and uses "fighting for freedom, democracy" as a ruse to make its invasions popular among the gullible US public.
    Please-Obama has squandered his political capital and now must bear the burden of that.

    And frankly-from a political aspect-this hurts him.

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