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Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

If he was armed like our mass murders are the death toll would be in the 100's so your point is a fail.

There was no "he" there were multiple attackers but how is my point a fail?
 
It gun control doesn't decrease crime then why are our murder rates at an all time low? In London the annual rate was 99 people which was the lowest since 1970. London is the safest it has been for over 3 decades, this is despite London's population growing bigger and more diverse over the last 30 years. London's population is 8,174,100 (census 2011) giving a London murder rate of 12.1 per million population in 2012.


London Murders 2006 to 2014

Let's Hold Off Celebrating America's (and New York's) Declining Murder Rate | Peter Dreier

All of your points? have been debunked a couple times by several people in the gun control section, please review those threads.
 
There was no "he" there were multiple attackers but how is my point a fail?

You claimed that this incident proves that controlling high powered weapons has no effect on mass killings. It proves nothing of the sort. Every survivor in the area owes their life to gun control in China.
 
schools, cinemas, malls, military bases, navy yards...People don't seem to picky.

What do all those places have in common with guns?
 
You claimed that this incident proves that controlling high powered weapons has no effect on mass killings. It proves nothing of the sort.

No, I proved that anti-self defense, anti-gun folks that like to compare other countries that have strict gun control in support of more gun control here fail.
 
All of your points? have been debunked a couple times by several people in the gun control section, please review those threads.

How and where? You don't debunk anything you dismiss facts. You and others bring up the murder rate in the UK and I have show you links which show that our current murder rates are at all time low. So please go on explain how gun control has caused our murder rates to increase?
 
How and where? You don't debunk anything you dismiss facts. You and others bring up the murder rate in the UK and I have show you links which show that our current murder rates are at all time low. So please go on explain how gun control has caused our murder rates to increase?

What do those places you listed have in common with weapons?
 
What do those places you listed have in common with weapons?


I'm guessing gun free zones except for the cinema and military base.

So I take it from the lack of an answer that you concede the point that gun control has not caused Britain's murder rate to increase?
 
I'm guessing gun free zones except for the cinema and military base.

So I take it from the lack of an answer that you concede the point that gun control has not caused Britain's murder rate to increase?

It couldn't been from the big hint I finally had to post just before yours, could it? Address that as it relates to your claim
It's also worth pointing out that being allowed to own and carry firearms hasn't stopped mass murder in the US either on the contrary you have one of the worst murder rates in the world.
and then maybe I'll address your bad claim of Britain vs US.
 
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Its no claim these are facts my friend and in our case gun control has not have a negative effect on our murder rate quite the opposite in fact especially over the last 10 years. Not saying that gun control would work in the US like it does in many other countries in fact I know it wouldn't but the pro gun crowd needs to stop using Britain's laws as an example because gun control here as been overall very successful.
 
mmm flawed study and do you know how low our homisice rates are in comparison to the US are?



Let's don't go the apples and oranges route. England had very low murder rates long before instituting any serious gun control. Different cultures.
 
Let's don't go the apples and oranges route. England had very low murder rates long before instituting any serious gun control. Different cultures.

see post above yours ;)
 
1) Guns are more convenient and more deadly than knives
2) Knives have multiple uses. Gun's only use is to either kill, injure, or threaten
3) If the argument for owning guns is that guns deter violence, you can also argue that even more deadly weapons (RPG's, chemical weapons, etc) could do an even better job at deterring violence, but an overwhelming majority of people, including pro-gun supporters, would agree that these weapons should not be made available to the public.

that's really stupid. Guns have many uses. I own LOTS of guns Some are for hunting, some are for self defense, but most are for competition. I own lots of knives. Some are for eating, some are for cutting up cardboard but many are for self defense.

Chemical weapons are pretty crappy for self defense and so is an RPG. If you miss with an RPG, your opponent can easily kill you with just about any type of firearm, or edged weapon. Someone with an RPG is easily killed by a man with a rifle since most of us who are skilled with rifles can hit a man sized target at several hundred yards.
 
Let's don't go the apples and oranges route. England had very low murder rates long before instituting any serious gun control. Different cultures.

Yes, England's rate of violent crime has only increased subsequent to the collective bed wettings by that country's leadership after WWI, WWII and Dunblane
 
see post above yours ;)


Yup, should have read the thread to the end first.


In my studies on international homicide rates, it is true that gun laws and rates of private gun ownership seem to have no impact on murder rates. More guns, less guns; virtually no change.

Some nations with strict gun control and far lower rates of private gun ownership have MANY TIMES MORE murders than the US. Contrariwise, you have the UK and Canada example... Canada has many times more guns than the UK, but the murder rate is barely any higher.


Culture, economics, government/LE, tribes/factions/gangs, and drug trade, seem to be the main determining factors in murder rates.
 
Yup, should have read the thread to the end first.


In my studies on international homicide rates, it is true that gun laws and rates of private gun ownership seem to have no impact on murder rates. More guns, less guns; virtually no change.

Some nations with strict gun control and far lower rates of private gun ownership have MANY TIMES MORE murders than the US. Contrariwise, you have the UK and Canada example... Canada has many times more guns than the UK, but the murder rate is barely any higher.


Culture, economics, government/LE, tribes/factions/gangs, and drug trade, seem to be the main determining factors in murder rates.


It was talking to posters like yourself that made me realise that gun control wouldn't;t work in the US like it does in other countries. Hidden factors like the drug war, diverse landscape/population etc would make it almost impossible to enforce and previously was something I never took into consideration.
 
Its no claim these are facts my friend and in our case gun control has not have a negative effect on our murder rate quite the opposite in fact especially over the last 10 years. Not saying that gun control would work in the US like it does in many other countries in fact I know it wouldn't but the pro gun crowd needs to stop using Britain's laws as an example because gun control here as been overall very successful.

It works both ways. Anti-gun control need to stop using Britain's laws on guns as examples and that was my intent in starting this thread. It seems to start first from anti-gun who love to throw in Mexico, gasp, Canada, and several European areas for gun control examples.
 
It was talking to posters like yourself that made me realise that gun control wouldn't;t work in the US like it does in other countries. Hidden factors like the drug war, diverse landscape/population etc would make it almost impossible to enforce and previously was something I never took into consideration.


Yeah, for a "civilized" nation, we have some odd problems. We are culturally more inclined to violence, for one, or at least more prone to deadly violence. This stems from many things, but a lot of it has its roots in our frontier and rebel heritage, and our cultural glorification of "action speaks louder than words".

We also have a number of subcultures, mainly but not exclusively ethnic, that remain resistant to assimilation by the mainstream culture; viewing themselves as "other" and "oppressed" they justify extra-legal action internally and are driven by poverty and a lack of belief in traditional means of success, and those subcultures are actually where the large majority of our daily violence comes from.

Then there's the drug trade of course... wherever you find the illegal drug trade, you tend to find elevated levels of violence, and apparently we here in the USA love drugs, while being unable to accept as a society that some percentage is going to do drugs no matter what the law says, and that the very illegality of it is fueling a lot of the violence involved.


This is why I often get impatient when we have posters who express very simplistic, linear-thinking black-and-white ideas on the subject of gun control and violence, because the subject is actually bloody complicated in both its sources and any potential solutions.
 
How does that relate to self-defense?

You want me to describe a relationship between a quote and self-defense? I don't see how any quote relates to self-defense...do you? Two totally different acts.
 
You want me to describe a relationship between a quote and self-defense? I don't see how any quote relates to self-defense...do you? Two totally different acts.

What?
 
It gun control doesn't decrease crime then why are our murder rates at an all time low? In London the annual rate was 99 people which was the lowest since 1970. London is the safest it has been for over 3 decades, this is despite London's population growing bigger and more diverse over the last 30 years. London's population is 8,174,100 (census 2011) giving a London murder rate of 12.1 per million population in 2012.


London Murders 2006 to 2014

Let's Hold Off Celebrating America's (and New York's) Declining Murder Rate | Peter Dreier

Oh, I see, but it's okay for the other side to use statistics? Anyway, as you can see in this post here, that I'm copying for you, the statistics are not always accurate. I put in bold some relevant points for you.

CROSS SECTIONAL ANALYSES

34. In terms of the relationship between gun ownership and homicide, cross sectional analyses, comparing one country with another or comparing groups of countries, create enormous problems because of the huge number of variables that may exist. The simpler of these variables are the different methods of defining and counting the number of firearms. Only those firearms which have been declared to the authorities can be counted. In some countries, licenses are required for almost all classes of firearms, including antiques and air weapons. In other countries, the term antique is extended to cover items considered to be subject to license elsewhere, and many classes of shotgun and rifle are not controlled so are not countable.
35. Homicide statistics too vary widely. In some developing countries, the statistics are known to be far from complete. Figures for crimes labelled as homicide in various countries are simply not comparable. Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent. The adjustment is made only in respect of figures shown in one part of the Annual Criminal Statistics. In another part relating to the use of firearms, no adjustment is made. A table of the number of homicides in which firearms were used in England and Wales will therefore differ according to which section of the annual statistics was used as its base. Similarly in statistics relating to the use of firearms, a homicide will be recorded where the firearm was used as a blunt instrument, but in the specific homicide statistics, that case will be shown under "blunt instrument".
36. Many countries, including the United States, do not adjust their statistics down in that way and their figures include cases of self defence, killings by police and justifiable homicides. In Portugal, cases in which the cause of death is unknown are included in the homicide figures, inflating the apparent homicide rate very considerably.
37. Causing death by dangerous driving is not classed as homicide in England and Wales, but is classified as homicide in some countries. Over 200 such cases occur in England and Wales each year.
38. In France, Switzerland and several other countries, attempts and completed homicides are treated as a single statistical unit and can be separated out only by special enquiry.
39. The variables created by the factors listed above could be either eliminated or controlled-for in a thorough study. Other variables are much more difficult to eliminate or balance. Social, ethnic, historical and geographical factors have been shown to be extremely important, and police efficiency, arrest rates and sentencing policies which differ from country to country may be important in some classes of homicide, but are less important in others.
 
Leaping, hooting, and pointing fingers has been well mastered by most of them.

Well, it could be worse. We could be like some foreign countries where they actually fight and throw things at one another. :lol: We haven't devolved to that point yet, so there's a silver lining in the cloud. Lol!
 
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