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Thread: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    I'm guessing gun free zones except for the cinema and military base.

    So I take it from the lack of an answer that you concede the point that gun control has not caused Britain's murder rate to increase?
    It couldn't been from the big hint I finally had to post just before yours, could it? Address that as it relates to your claim
    It's also worth pointing out that being allowed to own and carry firearms hasn't stopped mass murder in the US either on the contrary you have one of the worst murder rates in the world.
    and then maybe I'll address your bad claim of Britain vs US.
    Last edited by MACS-24; 03-02-14 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Military bases are gun-free. Ask Clinton.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    If certain gun guys are insulted by that? Good, they should be ashamed: the rest of US are sick and tired of having our intelligence insulted[/i].



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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Its no claim these are facts my friend and in our case gun control has not have a negative effect on our murder rate quite the opposite in fact especially over the last 10 years. Not saying that gun control would work in the US like it does in many other countries in fact I know it wouldn't but the pro gun crowd needs to stop using Britain's laws as an example because gun control here as been overall very successful.

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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    mmm flawed study and do you know how low our homisice rates are in comparison to the US are?


    Let's don't go the apples and oranges route. England had very low murder rates long before instituting any serious gun control. Different cultures.

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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Let's don't go the apples and oranges route. England had very low murder rates long before instituting any serious gun control. Different cultures.
    see post above yours
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by theaterofdreams View Post
    1) Guns are more convenient and more deadly than knives
    2) Knives have multiple uses. Gun's only use is to either kill, injure, or threaten
    3) If the argument for owning guns is that guns deter violence, you can also argue that even more deadly weapons (RPG's, chemical weapons, etc) could do an even better job at deterring violence, but an overwhelming majority of people, including pro-gun supporters, would agree that these weapons should not be made available to the public.
    that's really stupid. Guns have many uses. I own LOTS of guns Some are for hunting, some are for self defense, but most are for competition. I own lots of knives. Some are for eating, some are for cutting up cardboard but many are for self defense.

    Chemical weapons are pretty crappy for self defense and so is an RPG. If you miss with an RPG, your opponent can easily kill you with just about any type of firearm, or edged weapon. Someone with an RPG is easily killed by a man with a rifle since most of us who are skilled with rifles can hit a man sized target at several hundred yards.



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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Let's don't go the apples and oranges route. England had very low murder rates long before instituting any serious gun control. Different cultures.
    Yes, England's rate of violent crime has only increased subsequent to the collective bed wettings by that country's leadership after WWI, WWII and Dunblane



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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    see post above yours

    Yup, should have read the thread to the end first.


    In my studies on international homicide rates, it is true that gun laws and rates of private gun ownership seem to have no impact on murder rates. More guns, less guns; virtually no change.

    Some nations with strict gun control and far lower rates of private gun ownership have MANY TIMES MORE murders than the US. Contrariwise, you have the UK and Canada example... Canada has many times more guns than the UK, but the murder rate is barely any higher.


    Culture, economics, government/LE, tribes/factions/gangs, and drug trade, seem to be the main determining factors in murder rates.

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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yup, should have read the thread to the end first.


    In my studies on international homicide rates, it is true that gun laws and rates of private gun ownership seem to have no impact on murder rates. More guns, less guns; virtually no change.

    Some nations with strict gun control and far lower rates of private gun ownership have MANY TIMES MORE murders than the US. Contrariwise, you have the UK and Canada example... Canada has many times more guns than the UK, but the murder rate is barely any higher.


    Culture, economics, government/LE, tribes/factions/gangs, and drug trade, seem to be the main determining factors in murder rates.

    It was talking to posters like yourself that made me realise that gun control wouldn't;t work in the US like it does in other countries. Hidden factors like the drug war, diverse landscape/population etc would make it almost impossible to enforce and previously was something I never took into consideration.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Its no claim these are facts my friend and in our case gun control has not have a negative effect on our murder rate quite the opposite in fact especially over the last 10 years. Not saying that gun control would work in the US like it does in many other countries in fact I know it wouldn't but the pro gun crowd needs to stop using Britain's laws as an example because gun control here as been overall very successful.
    It works both ways. Anti-gun control need to stop using Britain's laws on guns as examples and that was my intent in starting this thread. It seems to start first from anti-gun who love to throw in Mexico, gasp, Canada, and several European areas for gun control examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    If certain gun guys are insulted by that? Good, they should be ashamed: the rest of US are sick and tired of having our intelligence insulted[/i].



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    Re: Train station knife attack kills 27, injures 109 in China

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    It was talking to posters like yourself that made me realise that gun control wouldn't;t work in the US like it does in other countries. Hidden factors like the drug war, diverse landscape/population etc would make it almost impossible to enforce and previously was something I never took into consideration.

    Yeah, for a "civilized" nation, we have some odd problems. We are culturally more inclined to violence, for one, or at least more prone to deadly violence. This stems from many things, but a lot of it has its roots in our frontier and rebel heritage, and our cultural glorification of "action speaks louder than words".

    We also have a number of subcultures, mainly but not exclusively ethnic, that remain resistant to assimilation by the mainstream culture; viewing themselves as "other" and "oppressed" they justify extra-legal action internally and are driven by poverty and a lack of belief in traditional means of success, and those subcultures are actually where the large majority of our daily violence comes from.

    Then there's the drug trade of course... wherever you find the illegal drug trade, you tend to find elevated levels of violence, and apparently we here in the USA love drugs, while being unable to accept as a society that some percentage is going to do drugs no matter what the law says, and that the very illegality of it is fueling a lot of the violence involved.


    This is why I often get impatient when we have posters who express very simplistic, linear-thinking black-and-white ideas on the subject of gun control and violence, because the subject is actually bloody complicated in both its sources and any potential solutions.

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