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Thread: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    What about the rights of all the team members who have no desire to have this man on their team? Why should they be forced into an association with this man so that you can feel good about your "enlightenment?"
    They're not forced into any association. They sign their contracts just like everyone else.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Since you bring up Hitler, let's roll that around a bit. Hitler didn't want to give rights to Jews. You don't want to give rights to bigots. You're both making a group "unpersons" who shouldn't be treated the same as others.

    I'm really curious about how people like you think. Why do you feel it is moral to deny people you don't approve of the rights that you grant to others? Why can't bigots have a right to free association?

    Voltaire's biographer attributed his position as ""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" and I'm wondering why so many of you liberals have turned your back on freedom. No one is asking you to support the association choices of people, all we're asking is that you respect their RIGHT to do so even if you disagree with those choices.

    This is how freedom is defended. No one need step forth and defend the statement "I love my mother" it is the freedom to make offensive statements which is most in need of defense. You guys are not helping keep liberty alive, you're burying it so that you can peacock about how tolerant you are. Being tolerant while stomping on the grave of liberty is not something that I endorse.
    So it is OK to deny rights to some while you pretend to defend the rights of others which seem more deserving to you.
    Nobody is trying to deny association rights to bigots. If they play for their private club by all means, but that not the case now is it? The bigots in question are playing for a team, I wonder if you understand the meaning of that beyond the obvious, never mind. So now you wish to bar some from playing on that team which is not a place of association, but one they get paid to perform a certain tasks. It is called employment at will for a reason, no one is forcing anyone into the game.

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Liberals want everyone to love homosexuals.
    Hypocrisy, or errant baseless assertion?

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Your fail is in thinking that one right gives into another or that somehow that train of thought even begins to make sense.
    It makes perfect sense.

    You can't have all rights for everyone all the time, since some rights conflict with another person's sometimes.
    Education.

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A question for you is perhaps in order. What is the principle, of which, under all circumstances, necessarily fixed, determines, defines and governs the civil rights of men?
    Well, the law would be the first source followed by the international treaties a country signs and ratifies.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Since you bring up Hitler, let's roll that around a bit. Hitler didn't want to give rights to Jews. You don't want to give rights to bigots. You're both making a group "unpersons" who shouldn't be treated the same as others.

    I'm really curious about how people like you think. Why do you feel it is moral to deny people you don't approve of the rights that you grant to others? Why can't bigots have a right to free association?

    Voltaire's biographer attributed his position as ""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" and I'm wondering why so many of you liberals have turned your back on freedom. No one is asking you to support the association choices of people, all we're asking is that you respect their RIGHT to do so even if you disagree with those choices.

    This is how freedom is defended. No one need step forth and defend the statement "I love my mother" it is the freedom to make offensive statements which is most in need of defense. You guys are not helping keep liberty alive, you're burying it so that you can peacock about how tolerant you are. Being tolerant while stomping on the grave of liberty is not something that I endorse.
    So you compare the civil rights loss (and death) of Jews to not allowing idiotic bigots to discriminate against gays and other groups?

    Hilarious, respecting civil rights has to start with respecting the rights of bigots to disrespect other people's civil rights. The only thing I want to deny is the non-existing right of bigots to remove or deny civil rights of others. You don't have to be a fan of gays, you can think it is immoral, you even have the right to deny them into your house and you have the right to tell them your point of view. But when it comes to denying gays the same civil liberties as other people have, then those bigots have no rights. The same goes for bigots against democrats, conservatives, Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc.

    Being a bigot might be a civil liberty, but when bigots deny others the same civil liberties then they should be stopped by law to do so.

    And I am not a liberal, I am a social democrat. Now a lot of my points of view might be in line with liberal Americans but a lot of them do not. You define freedom as the right to deny others their freedom, I define freedom as the right for all to have the same right of freedom. If Freedom is done like in Animal Farm, where some have more right to freedom than others, then I am against it. Freedom should not be defined as the legal right to rob other people from that same freedom.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Thank you. I'm amazed at how a candidate or a lobbyist can be taken so seriously when they come up with their awful ideas. When they are actually Senators or Congressmen, yes, if they propose something stupid you can try to blame their whole party, although even then that isn't really valid.
    The fact that the republican party does not speak out about these nut jobs speaks volumes.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Well, the law would be the first source followed by the international treaties a country signs and ratifies.
    I was looking for more along the lines of something that acts as a foundation of a chain of reasoning, of which, under all circumstances, necessarily fixed, determines, defines and governs the civil rights of men. The law really doesn't work towards those ends, sorry.

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    The fact that the republican party does not speak out about these nut jobs speaks volumes.
    The fact that there is no such thing as "the Republican party" or "The Democrat Party" that is a monolith or deity, speaks volumes. If you want to condemn an entire party over one person's comments, then you must accept the apology of one person and I have a Republican friend who said that this bill was stupid. So, now what?

    Remember, everything is a 2 way street. Surely you're not so desperate that you can't accept that.

    Had this guy been a Democrat pushing a bill that allowed ONLY gay people to play in the Olympics, I would have posted the same defense. Let's play fair please. That's how you win debates...not by trying to be even more ridiculous than the original speaker, but by being realistic and noble of spirit.

    I hope you understand what I'm saying.

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    The fact that there is no such thing as "the Republican party" or "The Democrat Party" that is a monolith or deity, speaks volumes. If you want to condemn an entire party over one person's comments, then you must accept the apology of one person and I have a Republican friend who said that this bill was stupid. So, now what?

    Remember, everything is a 2 way street. Surely you're not so desperate that you can't accept that.

    Had this guy been a Democrat pushing a bill that allowed ONLY gay people to play in the Olympics, I would have posted the same defense. Let's play fair please. That's how you win debates...not by trying to be even more ridiculous than the original speaker, but by being realistic and noble of spirit.

    I hope you understand what I'm saying.
    So why do republicans say nothing about these comments. Like Nugent calling the pres a subhuman mongrel
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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