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Thread: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Sometimes I don't even think you understand rights at all. You jump around from topic to topic between rights arguments without even a care how they go together. First off, since you said before that you believe in natural rights there would be no such thing as a right to not be discriminated against, and therefore, nothing to consider here or balance. Second, rights don't balance each other, but stop where another persons rights begins. A balance would mean that one has to give in to the other, but it doesn't give in, it just didn't ever extend to that point.
    The behavior you're witnessing arises from a breakdown in reasoning. People who desire a certain conclusion try to backfill the logic so as to construct an argument which can support their desired conclusion. You on the other hand begin with a premise and build on that foundation until you can ARRIVE at a SUPPORTABLE conclusion.

    Sound reasoning wins arguments. Flawed reasoning leads people to get frustrated and to abandon the argument. They get frustrated because they believe in the conclusion that they favor but they can't find ways to rebut your logical arguments. This happens a lot when conclusions are reached via emotion rather than through reason.

    Liberals want everyone to love homosexuals. They don't give a damn about human rights. Look at how they have thrown the Right to Association into the gutter when it conflicts with their desire to have everyone be nice to everyone else. Politics driven by Pollyannish sentiments is a rat's nest of "reasoning."

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    They are free to be a part of the NFL or not. The NFL is not a person with rights. The NFL is an organization subject to a legal balancing of rights.
    An organization is an organized body of people with a particular purpose. This example here is an organization of team owners that have the right to decide who they will associate with as a group and for their individual teams.

    Just because someone starts a business or is a member of an organization does not mean they don't have rights.

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Again, that's YOUR country's perspective, not at all shared by the rest of the world. Some do, some don't.

    Not to mention, I deny the existence of "human rights". Those would need to be recognised by the bulk of the entire species and that is not the case. Unless you're going to change your tune and argue for "God-given rights". Human rights is just more flowery speech politicians like to throw around.
    Sure, there and there are also countries that discriminate against Jews, catholics, blacks, etc. Just because they do does not mean that a civilized country that is ruled by laws and treaties can allow an organization to discriminate against gays.

    And you might deny human rights, but luckily a lot of people in the US believe in human rights and so does the supreme court when it struck down anti-black laws. And didn't the USA ratify the International Covenant on Civil and Political rights?

    Civil rights should include the right not to be discriminated against due to onces sexual preference.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    What about the rights of all the team members who have no desire to have this man on their team? Why should they be forced into an association with this man so that you can feel good about your "enlightenment?"
    Yes, why not make this about giving bigots the right to not play on a team with gays. Yes, just like we should have not fought Hitler just because he wanted to live in a country with no Jews, communists, gypsies and we should respect the rights of people to not want to play on a team with blacks, criminals, Jews, American Italians, Canadians etc.

    Why not make this about how we should all respect bigotry. Soon all the black players in the NBA will refuse to play in the same teams with whites, why not respect their desire to not be forced into an association with whites so that they can feel good about not being racist bigots.

    (and it is not how I feel, just being somewhat sarcastic).
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Why does this idea freak men the **** out like this? It's not contagious, they're not gonna jump you when your back is turned, it doesn't mean your gay if gay guy looks at you. It makes no sense to me at all. It takes maturity to ignore it and go about your business. What a bunch of insecure little boys.
    So a hot lipstick chick doesn't offer to give you a thorough soap job at the YWCA after a brisk workout?

    Why does porn keep LYING to me, dammit!

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Civil rights should include the right not to be discriminated against due to onces sexual preference.
    A question for you is perhaps in order. What is the principle, of which, under all circumstances, necessarily fixed, determines, defines and governs the civil rights of men?

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    I don't know about your YMCA, happens all the time at mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So a hot lipstick chick doesn't offer to give you a thorough soap job at the YWCA after a brisk workout?

    Why does porn keep LYING to me, dammit!
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    I chalk this up with some of the other recent moves SOME people are desperately trying.

    While its obviously dispicable on the surface the emotion it brings out in me the most is joy lol

    WHy?

    These things and things like it are just further proof that America is on the road to improvement. Its just proof that the war for equal/human and civil rights is being won by those that support those things.
    The writing is on the wall and while there may be little speed bumps in the remaining road to equal rights and there maybe a battle or so lost here and there, who is winning the war is obvious. THose that support equal rights are winning.

    The fear and panic of those that support discrimination or are against equal/human/civil rights or who are bigots is made so obvious by insanity like this. They know who is winning and they know the days of gays not having equal rights are coming to an end!

    So for me in the big picture of things its HILARIOUS and the best part is some of this mentally insane and bigoted moves are going to HELP establish equal rights just like the bannings are. Its sweet poetic justice
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So a hot lipstick chick doesn't offer to give you a thorough soap job at the YWCA after a brisk workout?

    Why does porn keep LYING to me, dammit!
    This isn't about me. Keep the dream alive Gip.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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    Re: Powerful GOP lobbyist drafts bill to ban gay athletes from playing in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Yes, why not make this about giving bigots the right to not play on a team with gays.
    Since you bring up Hitler, let's roll that around a bit. Hitler didn't want to give rights to Jews. You don't want to give rights to bigots. You're both making a group "unpersons" who shouldn't be treated the same as others.

    I'm really curious about how people like you think. Why do you feel it is moral to deny people you don't approve of the rights that you grant to others? Why can't bigots have a right to free association?

    Voltaire's biographer attributed his position as ""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" and I'm wondering why so many of you liberals have turned your back on freedom. No one is asking you to support the association choices of people, all we're asking is that you respect their RIGHT to do so even if you disagree with those choices.

    This is how freedom is defended. No one need step forth and defend the statement "I love my mother" it is the freedom to make offensive statements which is most in need of defense. You guys are not helping keep liberty alive, you're burying it so that you can peacock about how tolerant you are. Being tolerant while stomping on the grave of liberty is not something that I endorse.

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