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Thread: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    The main argument from the OP is "how to keep supply-side economics thriving"?

    On the one hand, the U.S. is a capitalistic country. No doubt about it. This means that once an individual finds that magic formula to bring his product or service to that marketplace, is able to harnest the power of politics and/or the tax code in order to gain more wealth, the pure capitalist will take every advantage possible to bring about more wealth unto himself.

    Problem: Once the majority of industry lay in the hands of a small few, it becomes increasingly difficult for others to jump into the market. Put simple: the big fish quickly gobble up the little fish either through out-pricing them or buying them out. But that's on the side of dwindling competition. Consumers are the bigger threat to perpetual profits.

    What we've had take place in this country is two decades of union busting and off-shoring in order to keep labor cost down, and four decades of favorable (low) tax rates for the wealthy. The argument being so that companies can "keep more of what they earn and, thus, put more of their profits back into their business(es)". What entrepreneaur or small business owner wouldn't be in favor of these "cost-saving measures"?

    Problem: When your economic policies are based on consumption (and debt) - supply-side economics - you need to ensure there are:

    a) enough consumers to keep buying the products and services the marketplace provides, or,;

    b) enough investors to take on your debt (bonds) or remain confident in the strength of your company (stocks).

    Lose either and profits will fall. All Buffett, Unz, Hanauer, Silberstein and Hindery are saying is "if our capitalistic way of life is to continue, we either need to fulfill the tennants of 'trickle-down (supply-side) economics' or feed the welfare state and stop complaining about it."

    Many people out there just don't get it, probably because they don't want to. I'm not suggesting that the wealthy need commit to altuism and give just because. There is a logical reason for raising the minimum wage in a capitalistic society. You simply cannot keep wages so low that it becomes increasing difficult for people to have their basic survival needs meet. The problem with the conservative mind-set is it makes a false argument. It lumps too many into the "lazy" category without acknowledging that there are many people out there who want to make a way for themselves and/or improve their way of life, but they simple can't because they struggle to have their basic survival needs met. These same people who condemn the poor fail to acknowledge that job/skills training does have a cost. A college education - even a training certificate or associates degree - cost! And if you're struggling to put food on the table, a roof overhead, keep the lights on, put gas in your car, or your losing work hours to stay home and care for a sick child or have no health insurance at all, chances are you'll never be able to afford the necessary skills training (college education) to move up from your present status in life.

    Or course, some would then argue "work hard and move up the ranks". Easier said than done when those near retirement won't leave (or can't afford to retire themselves) AND your company isn't hiring/filling vacant positions OR just "right-sizing". Fact is, there are many problems with our national economy, but the best immediate corrective action all businesses can take to start turning things around is to pay their employees a higher salary (those deemed worthy enough anyway).

    There's only so much the working poor can take. Moreover, the middle-class can only be squeezed so much. Eventually, people will rise up. It's just a matter of time.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 02-24-14 at 06:19 PM.
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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    The best suggestions are made by example. None of these people are doing what they are suggesting, their lack of action speaks much louder than their words.

    By the way the wealthy are not inherently smarter than the average bipedal hairless monkey.
    Hello PriateMK1 - long time no see. Are you saying that these 5 men have not given massive donations to charity? I didn't say anything about their intelligence but they might be a little smarter than average. Or maybe just luckier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Last I checked, they're wanting to shape policy. Now if they're saying "rich should do xxx because it's the right thing to do", that's one thing. The way they're wording it, they want the government monopoly to throw its weight around.
    So are you Sir, and so am I. What's wrong with that? Do they have less rights than we do?

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Hello PriateMK1 - long time no see. Are you saying that these 5 men have not given massive donations to charity? I didn't say anything about their intelligence but they might be a little smarter than average. Or maybe just luckier.
    I hope he's not saying that! I gave a speech about a month ago on the merits of capitalism and one aspect of it was denoting how the wealthiest Americans - some of whom are mentioned in the OP - gave billions to charitable contributions just last year. These people do give, but they recognize that giving to charities will only help struggling families only so far. If it's a job that brings meaning to a person's life and a job that brings revenue to the government and reduces the rolls of those on social programs, then the wealth-class needs to feed the primary driver of capitalism - consumption. Pay higher salaries at least to the level where people can have a living wage and you take care of all sorts of problems in this country.

    Of course, folks who are against this decree INFLATION! Got news for you, inflation's already upon us. It's just creeping up there very slowly.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    They want to give some of their money back to the government to redistribute?

    Um, Warren Buffet is a billion dollars behind on his taxes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They want to give some of their money back to the government to redistribute?

    Um, Warren Buffet is a billion dollars behind on his taxes!
    In 2011, Berkshire-Hathaway was disputing a billion dollars in taxes. I can't determine how this resolved but I don't think that a company trying to fight their tax bill has much to do with an individual who donated 2.6 billion in 2013. He's not the only shareholder in B-H and demeaning him for this really isn't very logical. I'm sure you also know he has pledge 98% of his assets to charity upon his death, much to his children's dismay, no doubt.

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I hope he's not saying that! I gave a speech about a month ago on the merits of capitalism and one aspect of it was denoting how the wealthiest Americans - some of whom are mentioned in the OP - gave billions to charitable contributions just last year. These people do give, but they recognize that giving to charities will only help struggling families only so far. If it's a job that brings meaning to a person's life and a job that brings revenue to the government and reduces the rolls of those on social programs, then the wealth-class needs to feed the primary driver of capitalism - consumption. Pay higher salaries at least to the level where people can have a living wage and you take care of all sorts of problems in this country.

    Of course, folks who are against this decree INFLATION! Got news for you, inflation's already upon us. It's just creeping up there very slowly.
    I don't know why anyone would object to higher salaries for workers. Especially those who work.

    Some ultra-rich people give very generously and some wouldn't give anyone a dollar if they saw them starve. There is no "class behavior" that applies here.

    Obviously, those who are generous make more impact when they call for generosity than those who don't.

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    In 2011, Berkshire-Hathaway was disputing a billion dollars in taxes. I can't determine how this resolved but I don't think that a company trying to fight their tax bill has much to do with an individual who donated 2.6 billion in 2013. He's not the only shareholder in B-H and demeaning him for this really isn't very logical. I'm sure you also know he has pledge 98% of his assets to charity upon his death, much to his children's dismay, no doubt.
    These guys are counting on your naivety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Hello PriateMK1 - long time no see. Are you saying that these 5 men have not given massive donations to charity? I didn't say anything about their intelligence but they might be a little smarter than average. Or maybe just luckier.



    So are you Sir, and so am I. What's wrong with that? Do they have less rights than we do?
    Its been a bit I have been retooling my operations. Howdy by the way.

    Its easy to play a rigged game, especially if you have the inside scoop most of the wealthy are not especially smart just well placed. At the level of money they have acquired its actually very hard to lose unless they actively go about squandering it. People at that level make money by owning a bit of everything. This way unless EVERYTHING goes down there is very little risk they will lose out on their investments as a WHOLE. If their money mangers, or they are even remotely competent the gains will almost always out weigh the loses.

    By the way that's why you want to invest in institutional mutual funds if you invest in stocks as they have the best returns as that is how they invest. They own literally the entire breadth of the market. Not to mention they have very little in the way of overhead.
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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    These guys are counting on your naivety.
    Counting on it in what way? My influence is very limited - fooling me won't win anybody anything. But I'm open to learning, can you explain a bit more?

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    Re: 5 tycoons who want to close the wealth gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The main argument from the OP is "how to keep supply-side economics thriving"?

    On the one hand, the U.S. is a capitalistic country. No doubt about it. This means that once an individual finds that magic formula to bring his product or service to that marketplace, is able to harnest the power of politics and/or the tax code in order to gain more wealth, the pure capitalist will take every advantage possible to bring about more wealth unto himself.

    Problem: Once the majority of industry lay in the hands of a small few, it becomes increasingly difficult for others to jump into the market. Put simple: the big fish quickly gobble up the little fish either through out-pricing them or buying them out. But that's on the side of dwindling competition. Consumers are the bigger threat to perpetual profits.

    What we've had take place in this country is two decades of union busting and off-shoring in order to keep labor cost down, and four decades of favorable (low) tax rates for the wealthy. The argument being so that companies can "keep more of what they earn and, thus, put more of their profits back into their business(es)". What entrepreneaur or small business owner wouldn't be in favor of these "cost-saving measures"?

    Problem: When your economic policies are based on consumption (and debt) - supply-side economics - you need to ensure there are:

    a) enough consumers to keep buying the products and services the marketplace provides, or,;

    b) enough investors to take on your debt (bonds) or remain confident in the strength of your company (stocks).

    Lose either and profits will fall. All Buffett, Unz, Hanauer, Silberstein and Hindery are saying is "if our capitalistic way of life is to continue, we either need to fulfill the tennants of 'trickle-down (supply-side) economics' or feed the welfare state and stop complaining about it."

    Many people out there just don't get it, probably because they don't want to. I'm not suggesting that the wealthy need commit to altuism and give just because. There is a logical reason for raising the minimum wage in a capitalistic society. You simply cannot keep wages so low that it becomes increasing difficult for people to have their basic survival needs meet. The problem with the conservative mind-set is it makes a false argument. It lumps too many into the "lazy" category without acknowledging that there are many people out there who want to make a way for themselves and/or improve their way of life, but they simple can't because they struggle to have their basic survival needs met. These same people who condemn the poor fail to acknowledge that job/skills training does have a cost. A college education - even a training certificate or associates degree - cost! And if you're struggling to put food on the table, a roof overhead, keep the lights on, put gas in your car, or your losing work hours to stay home and care for a sick child or have no health insurance at all, chances are you'll never be able to afford the necessary skills training (college education) to move up from your present status in life.

    Or course, some would then argue "work hard and move up the ranks". Easier said than done when those near retirement won't leave (or can't afford to retire themselves) AND your company isn't hiring/filling vacant positions OR just "right-sizing". Fact is, there are many problems with our national economy, but the best immediate corrective action all businesses can take to start turning things around is to pay their employees a higher salary (those deemed worthy enough anyway).

    There's only so much the working poor can take. Moreover, the middle-class can only be squeezed so much. Eventually, people will rise up. It's just a matter of time.

    Extremely, well phrased out. You took my argument to the next level of logical reasoning.

    If people can try to see the situation, without so much bias and emotion, it's not hard to come to a similar conclusion.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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