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Thread: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

  1. #271
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    There's no ignorance, lol. Do you think intelligence employees don't have to do manual legal training (among other things) often? Of course you don't- you don't know anything about it. lol you sure do talk about it a lot though.
    I would assume that employees would have extensive legal training. As with all the intelligence agencies. It's just a matter of fact that this one is the largest, with the least oversight, and there's pressure for reform because of it. Police, attorneys, DA's, judges, hell, even presidents have legal training and they all swear an oath. An oath that is sometimes violated. I've yet to see anybody (in a serious fashion anyway) suggest that the NSA be eliminated, but reformed, with more oversight as well. It's a given that you and anyone else currently or formerly associated with the NSA would be opposed to that though.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I would assume that employees would have extensive legal training.
    Then why do you think they wouldn't know more about the Church Committee than, indeed, you? Especially because they would have access to classified portions of it that you, frankly, don't.

    It's just a matter of fact that this one is the largest, with the least oversight,
    No, you just don't like the oversight.

    I've yet to see anybody (in a serious fashion anyway) suggest that the NSA be eliminated, but reformed, with more oversight as well.
    Really? Didn't you say you don't care about NSA's foreign intelligence operations? Didn't you say you don't think the US should be spying on foreign leaders? What do you think it is the NSA should do, Monte, because you seem to either "not care" about what they do or actively oppose it.

    It's a given that you and anyone else currently or formerly associated with the NSA would be opposed to that though.
    Funny how people that have firsthand information would be against it, while people that clearly don't know much of anything are for it. Interesting, isn't it?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  3. #273
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    You're factually wrong about the oversight. And you also are unaware of the "declassified" portions of senator Church's report. If you have something from his report that negates his warning then produce it.

    And no, I don't care about the NSA's foreign intelligence gathering, AS LONG AS its strictly for security, but you and I both know it goes well beyond that. But obviously, my primary concern is with domestic spying outside of the restrictions of the fourth amendment, and you know that Old.

    And your wrong again that people with first hand knowledge are against it, if you mean all such people.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #274
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You're factually wrong about the oversight.
    This is just deplorable. You should be ashamed at the abhorrent level of your critical thinking. It's a fact there's oversight. That is nonnegotiable. United States Intelligence Community Oversight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's a fact you don't think there's enough. You've said it yourself. So no, absolutely nothing I said was factually wrong. Learn what words mean. Learn how to think. Because this is just pathetic. Nothing you say bears any weight because you're so wildly wrong, so often, while acting so sure of yourself. It's laughable.

    And you also are unaware of the "declassified" portions of senator Church's report.
    Again, no wonder you come to such nonsensical conclusions: your critical thinking skills are atrocious! You flat out said I didn't know about the Church Committee (funny). I asked you if you thought intelligence agency employees had to undergo legal training. You responded yes, so I told you that the Church Committee findings are very much included in that, including portions that you yourself have never seen (because we both know you don't have the clearance for that, and never have). That all led you to the conclusion that I was "unaware" of the rest of it? Seriously, Monte: critical thinking. Join lumosity or something, man!

    If you have something from his report that negates his warning then produce it.
    Critical thinking: no one needs to negate a ****ing WARNING.

    And no, I don't care about the NSA's foreign intelligence gathering, AS LONG AS its strictly for security,
    You have absolutely no basis to judge that one way or another, so just football, man. Or educate yourself. But don't do what you're doing now.

    but you and I both know it goes well beyond that.
    lol, so they're doing things other than for security? For what, then?

    But obviously, my primary concern is with domestic spying outside of the restrictions of the fourth amendment, and you know that Old.
    And I just don't care. And no listens to you, because your critical thinking is horrendous.

    And your wrong again that people with first hand knowledge are against it, if you mean all such people.
    This sentence makes no sense, try again.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #275
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Screw that.....he is a traitor.
    No, he is not.

    Treason is the only crime specified in the Constitution, and here is what our founding document says about it, from Article Three, Section Three:

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

    The Supreme Court has interpreted this to mean that no one can commit treason unless it's with a country against whom our Congress has declared war. This means that neither the Vietnam War nor the Korean War nor the War on Terror can yield treasonous Americans, as none of these wars were declared by Congress.
    (Lawrence O'Donnell: Why Edward Snowden cannot be a traitor | MSNBC)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  6. #276
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So manning is a traitor according to conservaties, snowden is a patriot according to you.

    Glad we know where YOU stand.

    I'll say Manning AND Snowden are traitors.
    Snowden is clearly a patriot. The US Government is not given carte blanche powers, it is not hands off. Government is given a small amount of power and privilege and rules to play by. We need to know if the government is abdicating its responsibilities to The People, it's the only way we can keep the Republic. We need more patriots like Snowden, willing to come forward and speak out against aggressive, illegal, and immoral government actions.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Snowden is clearly a patriot. The US Government is not given carte blanche powers, it is not hands off. Government is given a small amount of power and privilege and rules to play by. We need to know if the government is abdicating its responsibilities to The People, it's the only way we can keep the Republic. We need more patriots like Snowden, willing to come forward and speak out against aggressive, illegal, and immoral government actions.
    He is a traitor and as such when found guilty, should be put to death or life imprisonment without parole.

  8. #278
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    He is a traitor and as such when found guilty, should be put to death or life imprisonment without parole.
    That should be the government agents who engaged in treason against the Republic and against the rights, liberties, and freedom of the People. Patriots who inform on the government should get a pat on the back.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #279
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Ikari's just biding his time to start la revolucion lol
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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