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Thread: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

  1. #121
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    One person's hero is another person's villain. Being a diehard Bush Patriot Act and domestic spying supporter, you see him as a villain. How you must hate the traitors George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. You could start a petition for school books to define them as traitorous criminals.

    If the law unconstitutional as a court suggested, IF he had taken an oath to protect the Constitution then his release of the information was not only legal, but required. Possibly if he had taken such an oath and the actions unconstitutional, he could be prosecuted for not making it known. But, then, you're obviously down on the Constitution and Bill Of Rights too.

    It is amazing how many people now see acting to "preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States" as criminal traitor actions warranting execution or life imprisonment.

    At what point did so many Americans come to hate the Bill Of Rights in their personal paranoia?
    We live in strange times, where we need a "gun lobby" to have the Government follow its OWN RULE (the 2A.)

    We have threads on this forum where people who pledge to keep their oath to defend the constitution are regarded by most posters as crazy/paranoid traitors.

    And all champions of liberty are seen as "extreme."

    At what point did this occur? IMO its been a slow incremental process. 10 Years ago if you claimed that the NSA were doing what we now know they're doing, you were "crazy." 5 Years ago that made you "paranoid." Now the response is "So?"
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Now you know I wouldn't avoid your question my friend.....which I thought you had what I stated. Not to mention I have talked about how he could have done something while still getting the same results. Without trying to avoid prosecution of laws he knows he broke deliberately.
    So you think what he revealed might be worth revealing, but you don't like the way he did it? So the difference to you between hero and traitor is how he presents the information to the American people? Of course he's trying to avoid prosecution. If they treat him half as bad as Manning he'll go years without trial while being tortured. What he did afterwards has nothing to do with the message.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    One person's hero is another person's villain. Being a diehard Bush Patriot Act and domestic spying supporter, you see him as a villain. How you must hate the traitors George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. You could start a petition for school books to define them as traitorous criminals.

    If the law unconstitutional as a court suggested, IF he had taken an oath to protect the Constitution then his release of the information was not only legal, but required. Possibly if he had taken such an oath and the actions unconstitutional, he could be prosecuted for not making it known. But, then, you're obviously down on the Constitution and Bill Of Rights too.

    It is amazing how many people now see acting to "preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States" as criminal traitor actions warranting execution or life imprisonment.

    At what point did so many Americans come to hate the Bill Of Rights in their personal paranoia?
    Seriously, why do you keep repeating stupid ****, even when corrected on it. My thoughts on the Patriot Act(which in fact is that it has good and bad parts) and domestic surveillance are entirely unrelated to whether I think espionage laws should be enforced.

    Your ignorance of the law, and ignorance of how people think, is shown not only is saying so many untrue things, but in the fact you have to try and fit Snowden into a neat label, hero or villain. People are actually usually much more complex than that.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #124
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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    One person's hero is another person's villain. Being a diehard Bush Patriot Act and domestic spying supporter, you see him as a villain. How you must hate the traitors George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. You could start a petition for school books to define them as traitorous criminals.

    If the law unconstitutional as a court suggested, IF he had taken an oath to protect the Constitution then his release of the information was not only legal, but required. Possibly if he had taken such an oath and the actions unconstitutional, he could be prosecuted for not making it known. But, then, you're obviously down on the Constitution and Bill Of Rights too.

    It is amazing how many people now see acting to "preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States" as criminal traitor actions warranting execution or life imprisonment.

    At what point did so many Americans come to hate the Bill Of Rights in their personal paranoia?
    lol is this a serious post? An emotional screed wherein anyone that disagrees with the poster is "unamerican" and thus bad. Straight out of a McCarthy hearing and dangerously straddling poe's law.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Oh wow, and then crazy melodramatic posts by Lachean and Rabid, this is fantastic!
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So you think what he revealed might be worth revealing, but you don't like the way he did it? So the difference to you between hero and traitor is how he presents the information to the American people? Of course he's trying to avoid prosecution. If they treat him half as bad as Manning he'll go years without trial while being tortured. What he did afterwards has nothing to do with the message.
    The difference between a criminal and one who is not might be whether one follows the law in regards to handling issues with classified documents. If he had issue with the contents of those documents, there is a procedure to follow that would not make him a criminal. He chose instead to be one.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The difference between a criminal and one who is not might be whether one follows the law in regards to handling issues with classified documents. If he had issue with the contents of those documents, there is a procedure to follow that would not make him a criminal. He chose instead to be one.
    Oh yes, I remember your position now. You're in the "There are proper channels he could've chosen." group. You can't really use that to challenge the president and congress. You're reporting to them something they already know and are actively choosing to do. That never would've brought this to light.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The difference between a criminal and one who is not might be whether one follows the law in regards to handling issues with classified documents. If he had issue with the contents of those documents, there is a procedure to follow that would not make him a criminal. He chose instead to be one.
    Obviously if you go to the government to report on government misconduct they will care. Next you will tell us to go to the supreme court to keep the other branches in check.

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Oh yes, I remember your position now. You're in the "There are proper channels he could've chosen." group. You can't really use that to challenge the president and congress. You're reporting to them something they already know and are actively choosing to do. That never would've brought this to light.
    They are also the ones we the people chose to empower to make certain decisions. No one, period, empowered Snowden to decide for the whole ****ing country what should and should not be classified. We have laws. There are reasons for those laws. Usually good reasons, as is the case of the Espionage Act.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Ron Paul Launches Clemency Petition For Edward Snowden

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Oh yes, I remember your position now. You're in the "There are proper channels he could've chosen." group. You can't really use that to challenge the president and congress. You're reporting to them something they already know and are actively choosing to do. That never would've brought this to light.

    I was looking more at that hey he found the NSA program and what it entailed and gave it to the press. Just like he did with all the other intel. Not that he had to search out other programs from his buddy's computer. Nor to get into that system with his buddy's password. Look for any other connected programs either. That he should have left to the press.

    Doing it this way......then he could be looked at as a whistleblower. The fact that he went well beyond this. Bears out why most think he is a traitor, which leads to those other reasons I had thrown up.

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