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Russia/Egypt - close military deal; closer ties at expense of USA

Why is anyone not happy that Russia is helping to pull Egypt out of a hellhole? What's the motivation for not liking this? A hatred for Egyptians?
 
Montecresto said:
Personally, I don't give a ****. Let Russia have it, America is in deep trouble here, we have our hands full.
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I could not agree more.

All America gets for meddling in the Middle East is dead U.S. soldiers, lots of wasted U.S. dollars and most people pissed off at her.

Persian Gulf oil imports account for less then 1/4 of her total imports...so that's not it any longer.

U.S. Total Crude Oil and Products Imports


If Russia wants to get involved in that quagmire...let 'em.

And let America concentrate on the country that needs her help more then any other...America.
 
rocket88 said:
Ooh, you're so smart that you knew that. A regular Einstein.

I knew it too, but you don't see me bragging that I was so smart because of that.
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Your modesty is noted that you were one of the 13.1 % who voted for Obama and knew that Sarah Palin never said that she could see Russia from her house and you weren't gloating that you were more informed than 86.9% of Obama's supporters.

>"And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!"<

Media Malpractice Zogby Poll Results
 
rocket88 said:
Didn't say it wasn't but given your penchant for dropping it on the next President, we'll just say it's Reagan's fault.
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The Shah of Iran was already out of power and the Ayatollah Khomeini was in power before Reagan became POTOS.

It helped reading newspapers back then.
 
Montecresto said:
You can't throw a republican under the bus, that would be a bad little partisan. Actually it was nobodies job. As Apache readily stated, Iraq was about oil as far back as the 80's and its truly mind boggling that there are still people denying that. April Glaspie got the criticism, but I'm satisfied she informed Saddam Hussein as per her instructions, as ambassadors aren't usually working rogue. The message to Saddam was intentionally vague giving him the false belief that how he handled border disputes and slant drilling claims was not an American issue. Arab to Arab conflicts aren't the business of the US. Foolish for him by this time to have believed anything coming from Washington, but he did. And his subsequent action, which I do not support AT ALL, brought the US down his chimney. Apache summed up US foreign policy with regards to Iraq nicely above.
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My reference to Iraq and Iran and the flow of oil was about keeping the sea lanes in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz open allowing the flow of oil from other oil producing countries to flow to Europe and Japan while Iraq and Iran were busy killing each other. Remember the "Tanker Wars" ?
 
ecofarm said:
Saddam was sold anthrax vaccination for cows to prevent the population from starving and chlorine to purify water and prevent the population from dying of thirst and unclean water. That Saddam weaponized those commodities, which were required to be supplied under the sanctions resolution, is not the fault of anyone but Saddam. He choose to allow the cows to die and the people to go without water so that he could create WMDs.
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God, I love it. There ain't nothin' quite so amusing as the completely misinformed. You've earned your check today, and your handlers are proud, eh? You like the movie stars that believe their own press releases.
 
DaveFagan said:
God, I love it. There ain't nothin' quite so amusing as the completely misinformed. You've earned your check today, and your handlers are proud, eh? You like the movie stars that believe their own press releases.
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Cmons now DF.....you know Democracy is suppose to bring Peace and Walking on Sunshine. "Oh".....and fair elections. American Style. :lol:
 
If Putin wants to make the same mistakes Bush Sr, Clinton, and Bush Jr made...more power to him.



The only viable way to bring peace and stability to the Middle East is to kill everyone there. Too much history, too much hate, distrust, etc. it's unfortunate, but as cultures, they're ****ed.
 
ecofarm said:
Why is anyone not happy that Russia is helping to pull Egypt out of a hellhole? What's the motivation for not liking this? A hatred for Egyptians?
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A dislike of sharing the spotlight.
 
APACHERAT said:
The Shah of Iran was already out of power and the Ayatollah Khomeini was in power before Reagan became POTOS.

It helped reading newspapers back then.
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Well, if it was Clinton's job to clean up Bush I's mess, then it was Reagan's to clean up after Carter. He did pretty well except for this.
 
APACHERAT said:
What are you talking about ? Remember on 9-11-12 (Benghazi) No CSG or ARG was in the Mediterranean Sea. The last 11 Presidents before Obama always had a Carrier Battle Group and an Amphibious Ready Group with a reinforced Marine rifle battalion in the 6th Fleet AOR (Mediterranean Sea) 24/7. On 9-11-12 there were only three Arliegh Burke destroyers in the 6th Fleet AOR.

Last August during the Putin-Obama stare down where Obama blinked, the U.S. Navy wasn't able to surge a CSG into the Mediterranean Sea and was only able to deploy two destroyers to the 6th Fleet AOR increasing the 6th Fleet size to five destroyers. The Soviets were able to put a dozen warships into the Mediterranean Sea including a Slava class cruiser. American Nimitz class carriers and it's escorts are kind of scared of Slava class cruisers since they were built for only one mission, sinking American super carriers and it's escorts.

Under the Obama administration the 6th Fleet usually only have three Arleigh Burke class destroyers on station in the Med and their primary mission is providing anti ballistic missile defense for Europe. I'm sure we have a few attack subs in the Med but so does Russia.

The Russian Navy has a larger presence in the Med than the U.S. Navy. It's been like that for five years now.
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thanks, this is news to me. I had always thought the Russian navy was inferior presence in the Mediterranean, so we have NO carrier groups there now? wow.
where are they?
This has all changed under Obama??
 
rocket88 said:
Well, if it was Clinton's job to clean up Bush I's mess, then it was Reagan's to clean up after Carter. He did pretty well except for this.
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Iraq never surrendered during the first Gulf war. Only a cease fire agreement was signed.

Iraq didn't start violating the cease fire agreement until 1993. G.H. Bush was no longer in the White House.
 
ecofarm said:
So, now people who condemned US support of Egypt will condemn the withdrawal of that support?

haha
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there is some of that, but we aren't so much with drawling support , as allowing Russia in ( for no sane reason) as a supporter. Putin wants as much expansion of the empire as possible.

The OP says Russia stopped being a major supplier to Egypt after the '70's. If we cannot be a reliable partner, they will turn elsewhere.

SA is doing the same thing, but that is a bit different as we aren't not supplying ( we continue to), and running partner military ops -we are diversifying with possible détente' with Iran .

A GAIN and equalization of US influence. There is no gain in allowing Russia to supply Egyptian weapons, none.
 
APACHERAT said:
Iraq never surrendered during the first Gulf war. Only a cease fire agreement was signed.

Iraq didn't start violating the cease fire agreement until 1993. G.H. Bush was no longer in the White House.
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He should have taken Saddam out the first time. Why would anyone trust him to keep a cease fire? Seriously, who really thought he'd keep it? Oh, wait, Bush did....apparently.
 
annata said:
thanks, this is news to me. I had always thought the Russian navy was inferior presence in the Mediterranean, so we have NO carrier groups there now? wow.
where are they?
This has all changed under Obama??
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It all happened on Obama's watch.

1/2 of the Marine Corps isn't combat ready do to the lack of training and not being properly equipped. There's seems to be money for mandatory sensitivity training but not for training for war.

The Army is worse off, only 3 out of 33 combat brigades are properly trained and equipped to be deployed into combat.

Obama has grounded 1/3 of all Air Force squadrons and what aircraft that haven't been grounded, 50% can't fly because of the lack of maintenance and spare parts.

Two years ago it was reported to Congress that 23% of the Navy's ships couldn't put to sea and be able to fight because the lack of maintenance. Either a radar didn't work, or a weapons system wasn't working or a generator wasn't working etc.

The Obama administration is not in the national defense business but the social engineering business. To change the purpose and character of the U.S. military.


As of
February 12, 2014

The Navy Fact File contains descriptions of the roles and characteristics of Navy ships.

The make-up of a Carrier Strike Group (CSG)
The make-up of a Carrier Air Wing (CVW)
The make-up of an Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG)

Status of the Navy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Navy Personnel
Active Duty: 323,051
Officers: 53,529
Enlisted: 265,075
Midshipmen: 4,447
Ready Reserve: 109,099 [As of Dec 2013 ]
Selected Reserves: 61,432
Individual Ready Reserve: 47,667
Reserves currently mobilized: 3,881 [As of 7 Feb 2014]
Navy Department Civilian Employees: 201,000

Ships and Submarines
Deployable Battle Force Ships: 283
Ships Deployed: 83 (29%)
Ships Underway for Local Ops / Training (USFF / 3rd Fleet): 46 (16%)
Ships Underway
Aircraft Carriers:
USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) - 5th Fleet
Amphibious Assault Ships:
USS Bataan (LHD 5) - Atlantic
USS Makin Island (LHD 8) - Pacific

Aircraft (operational): 3700+

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=146

Where are our carriers ? -> CV Locations
 
rocket88 said:
He should have taken Saddam out the first time. Why would anyone trust him to keep a cease fire? Seriously, who really thought he'd keep it? Oh, wait, Bush did....apparently.
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In hindsight, if France hadn't insisted on picking Germany's pockets after WW l, there would have never been a WW ll.

Chew on that for awhile.
 
annata said:
Yahoo!

Obama unilaterally ( without calls from Congress to do so) recently suspended :
U.S. suspends significant military aid to Egypt - CNN.com


This was a blunder, un needed , allowing Russia to pounce on the opening to wedge into the ME, garnishing support from the US closest Arab ally .

Putin today also praised the Egyptian constitution, recognizing it produces "stability'; which is what most Egyptians want ( sans the Muslim Brotherhood).

Once again (like Syria) Putin is a chess player in strategic reach, while the US knocks down years of ties to Egypt like dominos -
Obama wears a dunce cap in the corner of the room watching the handshake of Sisi and Putin in Moscow.

He is single handedly allowing Russia to expand influence in the ME, for stupid, inanities reasons, being unable to comprehend realpolitik
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Agreed. Russia is now in a more influential position in the ME than the US is, in spite of all the blood and treasure we have spent there.

Another sterling performance by Obama and Kerry in the international political arena. (sarcasm)
I suppose you can't expect better from a community organizer and a liberal elitist.
 
annata said:
there is some of that, but we aren't so much with drawling support , as allowing Russia in ( for no sane reason) as a supporter.
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Of course there is a sane reason. Egypt needs all the help it can get. Bringing Russia in on the deal relieves the US of obligations and maintains (semi) Western support for the fledgling government to organize a democratic transitional government.

Why do you not want the Russians to help the Egyptians? Do you hate the Egyptians?
 
DaveFagan said:
God, I love it. There ain't nothin' quite so amusing as the completely misinformed. You've earned your check today, and your handlers are proud, eh? You like the movie stars that believe their own press releases.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should write a manifesto. You could mail it to people.
 
ecofarm said:
Of course there is a sane reason. Egypt needs all the help it can get. Bringing Russia in on the deal relieves the US of obligations and maintains (semi) Western support for the fledgling government to organize a democratic transitional government.

Why do you not want the Russians to help the Egyptians? Do you hate the Egyptians?
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/////
annata said:
There is no gain in allowing Russia to supply Egyptian weapons, none.
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annata said:
/////
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So you're wrong, obviously so via basic reasoning; yet, you refuse to accept that. Egypt needs all the help it can get. Russia helping is a good thing.
 
ecofarm said:
Perhaps you should write a manifesto. You could mail it to people.
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Great idea. Send me the stamps. No Egyptian stamps please. I heard the new ones will have pictures of Putin. The Arab Spring stamps are past their expiration date. Ask the CIA to give refunds .
 
DaveFagan said:
Great idea. Send me the stamps.
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Get a job.

No Egyptian stamps please. I heard the new ones will have pictures of Putin.
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I appreciate Putin's assistance in Egypt. If the place turns into Syria and the government kills 100k and gasses the capital, then I was wrong. But I think Egypt will be ok, it needs arms contracts from somewhere (forgoing such is not an economic or developmental option) and it probably will not go Assad on us.


The Arab Spring stamps are past their expiration date. Ask the CIA to give refunds .
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blahblahblah
 
DaveFagan said:
Great idea. Send me the stamps. No Egyptian stamps please. I heard the new ones will have pictures of Putin. The Arab Spring stamps are past their expiration date. Ask the CIA to give refunds .
Click to expand...

+1 :lol:
 
annata said:
Yahoo!

Obama unilaterally ( without calls from Congress to do so) recently suspended :
U.S. suspends significant military aid to Egypt - CNN.com


This was a blunder, un needed , allowing Russia to pounce on the opening to wedge into the ME, garnishing support from the US closest Arab ally .

Putin today also praised the Egyptian constitution, recognizing it produces "stability'; which is what most Egyptians want ( sans the Muslim Brotherhood).

Once again (like Syria) Putin is a chess player in strategic reach, while the US knocks down years of ties to Egypt like dominos -
Obama wears a dunce cap in the corner of the room watching the handshake of Sisi and Putin in Moscow.

He is single handedly allowing Russia to expand influence in the ME, for stupid, inanities reasons, being unable to comprehend realpolitik
Click to expand...

We shouldn't be arming any country other than ourselves.
 
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